Thorne budget hives

[Robbo8916]

Sorry not sure why my photo is on its side....

 

[Millet]

Sorry not sure why my photo is on its side....

Here you go,

 

[taurus]

Ta - So stick with standard size then.

 

[Robbo8916]

Here you go,

Lol thanks

Ta - So stick with standard size then.

Mine are standard. Like others have said its easy to move over to 14x12 if needs be.

 

[pargyle]

Ta - So stick with standard size then.

I wouldn't ..A 14 x 12 brood box has a lot going for it .. plenty of room for the bees to expand to a good sized colony, lessens the likelihood of swarming IMO (that will generate some debate !) and going into winter a well stocked 14 x 12 will have more than enough stores to see them through. Chances are with prolific bees and standard nationals you will end up with brood and a half or double brood to accommodate them and that (again IMO) is a pain in the butt - particularly for a beginner... for too many reasons to list here.

If you are thinking that you would need 14 x 12 eventually then it's silly to start off with standard nationals and then have to convert them ... start off with what you intend to have long term and stick to it ... mixing up types and sizes of frames/hives is only for masochists.

Having said that Langstroths are gaining in popularity in the UK and there's a few on here that would start with them if they were starting over again.

Once you have been beekeeping a few years the amount of kit you will need is quite significant - there's no such thing as staying a two hive beekeeper, you'll either grow or give up - and as long as all your kit is interchangeable it makes life a lot simpler - even if you give up it's easier to sell matched kit.

The best advice is to get alongside some local beekeepers and see what they use and how they use it .. get hands on with some hive types (even if they are without bees in them) and see what you like about them .. hives are a fairly personal thing and we all have our own reasons for the choices we make - and they are all the right choices. Don't be swayed by people that tell you what is best ... try, assess, and then make your own mind up.

PS: See .. what did I just say ...

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=520873&posted=1#post520873

 

[Swarm]

See if you can take a look at both sizes, in active colonies and then decide which you'd prefer to handle.

 

[For want of a better word]

and as long as all your kit is interchangeable it makes life a lot simpler

Tried 14x12 Jumbo National frames... bees did not utilise the space and moved up to super, fitted qx in an attempt to keep them down ...and they sulked.
The standard sized National next door with a sister queen filled brood box before moving up into super... and expanded a lot quicker
IMOLE it seems with the bees that I look after they did not make use of the relatively small additional space given to them in the Jumbo sized frames... outside frames hardly touched.

I use standard National frames DN4s in all of my brood boxes, it keeps things simple and my bees seem to have shown a preference!

QED

nos da

 

[madasafish]

I use Lang jumbo brood boxes - no lifting for inspections of brood boxes. (anyone who does so is likely to develop back problems in later life in my view.)

My mongrels fill edge to edge bees in summer (wood and poly - wood have insulation cosies).

Man Lake Brood boxes are £10.ish....these are only deeps but I convert to jumbos using a permanent eke attached to bottom of deep.

 

[Dadnlad]

Are these budget hives OK or is it worth spending more?

Ideally I'd eventually like to make my own but it would be handy to have something decent to start with.

This autumn I picked up some of their sale 'thirds' (broods and supers) unbelievably cheap
They went together easily (predrill and screw not nail), but have a few knot holes each (a drop of woodfiller and paint sorts out)
Floors and roofs are easy and cheaper to make yourself

If Thornes 3rds make perfectly good hives then their budget should do fine

 

[Honeybeeco]

Thorne seconds is ok for its money but if you want to save more, without losing any quality, then I'd recommend Mannlake UK hives and boxes everytime, because when seen side by side, Mannlake's UK traditional cedar national stuff stands out as better quality compared to the Thornes seconds we've bought and got in stock - and normally Mannlake is so much cheap plus now they also have a sale on - so it's win win.

Since buying Mannlake UK national boxes ( we are only a retail customer of theirs and only pay website prices), we no longer build our own national hives - it's just not worth it.

Their delivery is also much quicker than Thornes as well - from past and recent experience.

 

[taurus]

I looked at Mannlake, but they describe theirs as National Hybrid which I assume mean they aren't standard size and interchangeable with normal National kit.

Or did I read that wrong?

 

[Honeybeeco]

No, ignore their national hybrid stuff as its not British Standard (B.S.) - its not a tradition national hive - you want their B.S. National hive parts.

The only problem you might find is, whilst they sell British Standard National ( and 14x12) complete hives, they don't list them on their website as a complete kit I believe - they only list them as separate parts.

If your unsure what you need, drop them and email or call them and they will do you a quote.

But in the meantime, checkout how much cheaper Mannlake's B.S. national supers and brood boxes are compared to Thornes.

 

[Plenty of honey]

One thing i have learnt from failure is just to keep everything simply. Try to avoid the lure of different sized hives as Honeybeeco says. The cunning game that other suppliers will do is kind of "lock you in" with the first hive, then you end up buying all the other stuff to go with it, which isn't interchangeable at all with other stuff that you kinda wished you had bought before, that was slightly more expensive!!

I had a friend who brought all his British nationals over to France and be spent all his time trying to make adaptors so he could put Dadant supers on Nationals and vice versa and a whole game with swarm traps, that i won't mention!!

Anyway, try stick with some simple sizes, that work well. It will pay you dividends in the future.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

checkout how much cheaper Mannlake's B.S. national supers and brood boxes are compared to Thornes.

Not really much cheaper - unless you're talking about the pine stuff - the boxes they have on sale now are slightly cheaper but look no better than Thornes or Maisemore's second quality and the stuff I saw them offer at last year's convention was definitely of a poorer quality than the competition.

 

[Pete D]

Yes they are - the only differences being they are made with British cedar not Canadian (so already ticks the sustainability box)and the finish may not be as perfect as the more expensive ones

They do the job, good way to start and personally have just added more and more.

 

[taurus]

Thanks for the advice. I found C Wynne Jones near Ruthin which isn't far from me, so I drove over there and bought a couple of Nationals from them with frames etc - the boxes & frames are marked as Thorne, but I chose a wired/framed excluder and they do their own floors which are made locally.

It was good to deal with someone face to face and they were extraordinarily helpful.

So it gives me something to do putting it all together whilst I wait for the course to begin. The hives will probably be on grass so I'm planning to make a base to put the stand on which will lift the floor to about 16" off the ground. I can then use some of my sailing shock cord to go over the roof and hold the hive down in bad weather.

Does Cedar need any treatment that makes it last better?

 

[REDWOOD]

A great little video that might help you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ES2A_tdoMw

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Does Cedar need any treatment that makes it last better?

it will last ages just as it is - although as it weathers it turns a nice silvery grey - if you want to keep the colour you could always give it a dab of Danish oil or similar.

as for CWJ - they are a nice friendly and helpful bunch. and on the whole their prices are very competitive.

 

[taurus]

OK - silly question time

I have put one of the brood boxes together - it fits perfectly on the floor and matches the framed wire excluder & crown board - so it's the right size and shape.

I then assembled 11 Hoffman DN4 frames - assuming they would fill the brood box completely. They don't - with the frames pushed up again one side there is gap at the other of 1 1/4 inches.

From what I've read bees will fill any gap with comb - so am I meant to put something in that gap or do you position the frames centrally in the brood box leaving a slight gap at each end?

 

[pargyle]

OK - silly question time

I have put one of the brood boxes together - it fits perfectly on the floor and matches the framed wire excluder & crown board - so it's the right size and shape.

I then assembled 11 Hoffman DN4 frames - assuming they would fill the brood box completely. They don't - with the frames pushed up again one side there is gap at the other of 1 1/4 inches.

From what I've read bees will fill any gap with comb - so am I meant to put something in that gap or do you position the frames centrally in the brood box leaving a slight gap at each end?

Room for a dummy board ? So you take that out first and it gives you a bit of space to ease getting the frames that the bees are using out. Perhaps they have built this in ?