take away box, insulation, fondant - Help

[Alabamaeee]

Ok,

I need to put on fondant on my hives as they are a bit light. I have decided to do the take away box over the porter bee escape hole trick.

Just want to ask before doing something daft...

I have solid floors and have no insulation as present on the crown board. Should I insulate and cut out a slot for the take away box, or just fit two take away boxes to balance out the weight of the roof evenly and leave the crown board free of insulation?

I'm sure I'll get some interesting answers, but hey, despite health and safety I have put on an asbestos suit in anticipation

 

[region2]

No varroa where you are then? Solid floors are so last season...

R2

 

[Alabamaeee]

No varroa where you are then? Solid floors are so last season...

R2

Yes I know they are not popular but they are older hives and my plan is to go poly next year, which is why I am asking about insulation (or not) at the moment.

 

[oliver90owner]

Eke, another shallow box, but not the roof balancing on a couple of plastic cartons!

 

[Poly Hive]

Regardless of the solid floors your bees will deeply appreciate some warmth above.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you havent an eke, use a super stuff it with scrunched up newspapers or bubble wrap if you have nothing else to hand

 

[itma]

Using a super provides enough height to house two layers of Kingspan (or equiv). If you cut a hole in the bottom layer (over a feeder hole), you can put in a shallow tub of fondant and cover the whole lot with the second layer of insulation...
No bad thing to retain the piece cut out, as you can plug it in again when you don't have fondant on. (I cut my hole with sloping sides, so the plug can go back relatively 'tightly'.) You might need to mark it so the plug goes the right way round!
If the lid would actually be resting on the insulation, sticking in a bit of tile ensures you have an airspace between insulation and roof - so you don't get a damp problem there.

But with that lightly-filled super, be sure to strap the hive together to prevent the light super being blown off (and its no harm to pile a couple of bricks on top of the roof as well).

 

[MuswellMetro]

Using a super provides enough height to house two layers of Kingspan (or equiv). If you cut a hole in the bottom layer (over a feeder hole), you can put in a shallow tub of fondant and cover the whole lot with the second layer of insulation...
No bad thing to retain the piece cut out, as you can plug it in again when you don't have fondant on. (I cut my hole with sloping sides, so the plug can go back relatively 'tightly'.) You might need to mark it so the plug goes the right way round!
If the lid would actually be resting on the insulation, sticking in a bit of tile ensures you have an airspace between insulation and roof - so you don't get a damp problem there.

But with that lightly-filled super, be sure to strap the hive together to prevent the light super being blown off (and its no harm to pile a couple of bricks on top of the roof as well).

yes i agree , i do similar but dispense with the super, just cut two 25mm kingspan 460mm x460mm slabs and a hole in the lower one over the feed hole to take fondant....and strap the hive together, however i do not know whether with solid flors you will need extra ventilation like a 25mm hole in the top slab over the tub


to protect the kingpan cut edges i also tape over them with aluminium tapei

 

[Alabamaeee]

Thanks all

I think I'll go the kingspan route, just got to find some, was also thinking 50 mm polystyrene?

My fondant is made up in the trays and ready to go, seriously sticky stuff to cut and pack in to trays

My concern was not having enough ventilation seeing as they are on solid floors, and I also read somewhere that a vent hole is not good as it produces a draught like a chimney.

Just want to do the best for them over winter.

 

[oliver90owner]

The last hive with a solid floor I over-wintered had the brood box raised from the floor by about 3mm. No damp;sheltered, so no rain driven in, but hive sloped to allow any ingress to drain away. Bottom ventilation without an OMF.

RAB

 

[Gardenbees]

I keep an empty super on top of each hive all winter, filled with wadded-up bubblewrap in one case, and polystyrene packing slabs in the other. The crownboard on each hive is the sort with a central hole. If I need to slap some fondant on, I just take the lid off, lift out the insulation, take the little cover off the hole (a small piece of plywood) and place the fondant bag or tray over the hole. Then repack the insulation around the bad/tray and put the lid straight back on.

I use empty supers as much to store them as anything else; a shallow eke would be fine. As long as the insulation is easily lifted out and rearranged, it works fine and can easily be lifted off for varroa treatment if required (although I personally don't like to open the hive at all in winter unless I wasn't satisfied with the autumn varroa treatment and feel there's an urgent need to treat).

 

[Alabamaeee]

Rab,

Mine slope slightly towards the entrance to allow drainage, but may do what you suggest to provide a bit more ventilation.

GB,

Good ideas. I'll see what I can find around the house here but I'm sure there is some suitable material.

As for disturbing them I am in two minds about doing OA treatment. On a normal Autumn I may not have considered it, but with such a warm Nov I am a bit wary of the possible increase in Varroa.

My Apiguard went on quite late though, and they cleared it all up, so maybe I'm worrying unduly.

 

[JamezF]

The last hive with a solid floor I over-wintered had the brood box raised from the floor by about 3mm.

With matchsticks?

James

 

[oliver90owner]

With matchsticks?

No. Matchsticks would not take the compressive load - well, not one at each corner.

RAB

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

RAB - interested as to why you think bottom ventilation would be preferable to top ventilation on a solid floor - is it down to temperature? What do other solid-floorers (Hivemaker?) do?

 

[itma]

RAB - interested as to why you think bottom ventilation would be preferable to top ventilation on a solid floor - is it down to temperature? What do other solid-floorers (Hivemaker?) do?

I'm presuming that its a simulation of the OMF ventilation (and a drain!)

Closing the top allows heat to be trapped, like air in a diving bell.
Opening the top provides an easy escape route for warm (so rising) air.

Any heat trapped in the hive should reduce the energy expended by the cluster.

 

[Vergilius]

I'm still living in the "dark ages" of solid floors. For me, I just leave a tiny bit of the CB feed hole open throughout the winter as ventilation - no top insulation either. All the crown boards I used are double-holed, so if fondant is used there is still facility for ventilation. This may not be text-book, but it works for me.

Ben P

 

[oliver90owner]

RAB - interested as to why you think bottom ventilation would be preferable to top ventilation on a solid floor

MA,

Think about . Do we really need a floor at all? Is it really that important? Is an OMF really a floor?

Maybe ask these bees?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/esneri/4442448315/in/photostream

Perhaps if we just put, say, three shallows - all with some form of 'baffle', or just made sure no vermin could take up residence, or other animals could not feed on the bees/comb - the bees would over-winter with no more problem than with the normal OMF fitted.

Regards, RAB

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

RAB - interested as to why you think bottom ventilation would be preferable to top ventilation on a solid floor

MA,

Think about . Do we really need a floor at all? Is it really that important? Is an OMF really a floor?

Maybe ask these bees?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/esneri/4442448315/in/photostream

Perhaps if we just put, say, three shallows - all with some form of 'baffle', or just made sure no vermin could take up residence, or other animals could not feed on the bees/comb - the bees would over-winter with no more problem than with the normal OMF fitted.

Regards, RAB

Yup, get that - however having read many discussions here about what should be done with ventilating OMFs, I was wondering what then many who do use solid floors do, if anything.

 

[richardbees]

Solid floor?

Half a matchstick under each corner of the cover board....

...job done!