Syrup thicker than 2:1?

[Zante]

Since the bees are going to reduce it anyway, why not make syrup thicker, say 3:1 or even more?
This would make it easier on them, but also easier carry around a little less water and a little more sugar.

I'm sure there's a reason 2:1 has become a standard, so basically I'm wondering what the reason is.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Since the bees are going to reduce it anyway, why not make syrup thicker, say 3:1 or even more?

Or just feed fondant.

Syrup this thick would very soon crystallize solid in the feeder... and if a contact type it would just bung up the holes so the bees wouldn't be able to take it down at all

 

[Millet]

Good question but i suspect it will crystallize quicker the stronger the mix.

 

[Poly Hive]

Oddly there is a very simple reason for these sort of things ie syrup strength.

And that is that it works, and after many years of reinventing various circles the consensus is that a round circle is best, as is 2:1 syrup.

PH

 

[sipa]

2:1 is approx. 67% sugar, 33% water

To reduce this to 18% for capping, the bees use about 0.3kg sugar per litre of water evaporated.

Commercial inverted syrups come in at around 73/74% 0r 2.7:1

To increase the density further you need heat and pressure.

 

[ugcheleuce]

Since the bees are going to reduce it anyway, why not make syrup thicker, say 3:1 or even more?

Temperature. By the time you're trying to feed the bees, the ambient temperature is so low that 3:1 syrup starts crystallizing rapidly. It clogs your feeder and those crystals are not easy to remove.

The saturation temperature of 3:1 sugar is 65 °C. For 2:1, it's about 17 °C. This means that if it's 10-15 °C outside, your 2:1 syrup will crystallize only if you shake or stir it vigorously, but your 3:1 syrup will crystallize rapidly even at the point where bees' tongues "bump" against it while they drink it.

 

[Softley]

Since the bees are going to reduce it anyway, why not make syrup thicker, say 3:1 or even more?
This would make it easier on them, but also easier carry around a little less water and a little more sugar.

You're into the realms of an invert sugar syrup such as Ambrosia. It has a higher sugar to water ratio than 2:1 and doesn't crystallise. Bees don't need to do much to it at all.

 

[Zante]

I decided to give it a try and experimented with a small amount of 3:1 syrup, just to see what happens.
I didn't take the temperature past 60 celsius as I wanted to avoid caramelising as much as possible, so even with the lemon juice I added I imagine there will have been very little inversion.

There was a bit of sugar deposited on the bottom of the pan at the end, it probably would have dissolved completely if I'd "cooked" it a bit more, or at a higher temperature, but it was a small enough amount to still call it 3:1
Put it in a container and left it next to the other syrup I'd prepared.

It did indeed form a thin crust floating on the top overnight. I added a little bit of water and stirred it back in and it dissolved. I'd probably call it 2.5:1 now?
Last night it didn't crystallise again, but I'd wager that once the temperatures drop a little more it probably will, we're still on 24 degrees in the daytime, and probably around 12 to 15 at night.

If I had to feed them in June I might consider making thicker syrup, just to carry less around and feed more with each trip. With outside temperatures well past 35 it will probably keep liquid, but feeding them at that time would also mean a year as bad as the one that's ending now, and I'd rather never get to use that thicker syrup.

 

[Bakerbee]

Sugar needs a 2:1 ratio or any less water causes it to crystallize. Even making a 2:1 and heating it too long will crystallize as the moisture lost through evaporation is enough to alter the ratio.