Swarming?

[enrico]

Judging by my experience with these bees, I wouldn't describe myself as intelligent or alluring!I am using leather gloves and certainly revisit the hive more protected!I had army combats on and I could use the elastics to stop them crawling up my legs, it didn't occur at the time until the little blighters started crawling up my legs!

Bees will always crawl upwards so start with wellington boots and tuck your trousers into them, tuck your jacket into your trousers etc! Rarely will they crawl downwards!

 

[Sutty]

I have been keeping bees for about 15 years but have never had any luck finding an unmarked queen. My eyes just aren't up to it. Does anyone have any tips? I have been getting by but procedures requiring location of the queen are closed to me.

If you really HAVE to find the queen you can move the hive to one side, put an empty brood chamber on a floor on the original site, then a queen excluder and another empty box on top. Then go through the full brood chamber 1 frame at a time, shake the bees into the box over the excluder and smoke the bees through it.
Eventually you will find the queen on top of the excluder. Cage her and mark her so you hopefully don't have to do this again!
You can then remove top box and queen excluder and gently lower the frames one at a time into the mass of bees - don't push them down. Let the (now marked) queen run down between the frames once they are all in. Reassemble the hive and retire.
Make sure you are well protected if you do this as they may be none too pleased!

 

[Arfermo]

If you really HAVE to find the queen you can move the hive to one side, put an empty brood chamber on a floor on the original site, then a queen excluder and another empty box on top. Then go through the full brood chamber 1 frame at a time, shake the bees into the box over the excluder and smoke the bees through it.
Eventually you will find the queen on top of the excluder. Cage her and mark her so you hopefully don't have to do this again!
You can then remove top box and queen excluder and gently lower the frames one at a time into the mass of bees - don't push them down. Let the (now marked) queen run down between the frames once they are all in. Reassemble the hive and retire.
Make sure you are well protected if you do this as they may be none too pleased!

Or get/make a Taranov board (Dave Cushman website probably shows how), shake the bees out onto a cloth and watch for the Q as they march back up into the hive. Very interesting spectacle too so get an audience to watch as well.

 

[Boston Bees]

I has always been pretty successful in finding queens and recently tried to explain to someone how it did it.
When I thought about it I realised I didn't inspect the bees but the whole comb and look for different types of movement. Drones and Queens move differently from workers as they walk across the frame and I find I'm drawn to that difference. Once you pick up on that finding queens becomes much easier. I find queens sashay across the comb, drones seem to plod whereas workers scurry.
Just my interpretation It works for me......

Absolutely, it's why I find it much easier finding queens in real life than on these "find the queen" snapshots (valuable though those are)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I has always been pretty successful in finding queens and recently tried to explain to someone how it did it.
When I thought about it I realised I didn't inspect the bees but the whole comb

I've always found the easiest way to find a queen is to not look for her and you'll find her every time. I usually catch sight of her in my periphery vision (not as good as it was since the op on my eyes) as Neil says, hard to explain but she moves differently and if you are not constantly staring at the bees to find her you will catch the difference in her appearance too.
The worse thing you can do is look for the white/red/yellow/whatever spot on her back.

 

[Boston Bees]

I've always found the easiest way to find a queen is to not look for her and you'll find her every time. I usually catch sight of her in my periphery vision (not as good as it was since the op on my eyes) as Neil says, hard to explain but she moves differently and if you are not constantly staring at the bees to find her you will catch the difference in her appearance too.
The worse thing you can do is look for the white/red/yellow/whatever spot on her back.

I don't mark my queens. This is mainly out of cowardice. But it is also a deliberate attempt to make me better at spotting queens without artificial assistance. Touch wood, this seems to have worked.

 

[Will Kevans]

Thanks for all the brilliant advice, for those who may be interested and have advice here is me conducting the hive inspection. Pretty certain I'm doing everything wrong and have missed out on some important details.Here is the Link .

 

[Boston Bees]

Thanks for all the brilliant advice, for those who may be interested and have advice here is me conducting the hive inspection. Pretty certain I'm doing everything wrong and have missed out on some important details.Here is the Link .

You appear to be inspecting by taking each frame out at a time, then putting it back in, which necessitates squeezing it out and back in again between the 2 adjacent frames. That will crush and roll a lot of bees, maybe killing a queen, but certainly enraging the bees. Take the first one or two frames out, put them to one side (eg in a nuc box), then you can slide the other frames over with your hive tool and take each one out, and replace it, with lots of space to work. Then reverse the process.

1m28 - yes that appears to be a QC
2m48 - ditto
4m11 - those aren't special types of bees, those are queen cells

etc etc

basically a LOT of capped queen cells

The behaviour of the bees is awful. If I had a hive that was always like that I would get rid of the genetics. However, I suspect (no offence) that at least some of their aggression is caused by your inspection technique (see above). If you are doing that to them on a weekly basis, their rage is to be expected.

So, first you have to deal with all those capped QCs or you will see cast swarm after cast swarm thrown out of the hive. When I say deal with, you will want to leave at least one intact of course, or you will kill the hive.

Then, work on your inspection technique.

 

[Will Kevans]

You appear to be inspecting by taking each frame out at a time, then putting it back in, which necessitates squeezing it out and back in again between the 2 adjacent frames. That will crush and roll a lot of bees, maybe killing a queen, but certainly enraging the bees. Take the first one or two frames out, put them to one side (eg in a nuc box), then you can slide the other frames over with your hive tool and take each one out, and replace it, with lots of space to work. Then reverse the process.

1m28 - yes that appears to be a QC
2m48 - ditto
4m11 - those aren't special types of bees, those are queen cells

etc etc

basically a LOT of capped queen cells

The behaviour of the bees is awful. If I had a hive that was always like that I would get rid of the genetics. However, I suspect (no offence) that at least some of their aggression is caused by your inspection technique (see above). If you are doing that to them on a weekly basis, their rage is to be expected.

So, first you have to deal with all those capped QCs or you will see cast swarm after cast swarm thrown out of the hive.

That's great advice as you can see I don't have much of a clue! Would you recommend me to split the hive to start another one?Will I have to scrape off those capped queen cells? Also have I done the right thing putting the honey super above?Also would I need to put in a queen excluder?

 

[Boston Bees]

That's great advice as you can see I don't have much of a clue! Would you recommend me to split the hive to start another one?Will I have to scrape off those capped queen cells? Also have I done the right thing putting the honey super above?Also would I need to put in a queen excluder?

It appears to me to be almost certain that the queen that was in the hive has already left, with a large swarm. A further cast swarm may have also left, but let's assume not.

The honey super, at the moment, appears to be a distraction. Your hive isn't going to be filling a super with honey during this process, as a lot of the foraging bees have just left. So I would probably just take it off at this point to be honest.

I don't know what spare equipment you have. If it was me, I would probably split this hive into two as an insurance policy, with half the brood frames in each one (I would use nuc boxes, but you can use hives) leaving one undamaged capped queen cell in each one (pick the largest, knobbliest one for each). I would put the two new boxes next to each other, on the same location as the existing box, facing the same way, so that flying bees have a pretty equal chance of choosing either hive when they return to the location they know. That will divide the population fairly evenly between the 2 hives. Then leave them completely alone for a month to allow the queens to emerge and get mated.

If both do so, you have two hives. If only one does, you can merge them back together. If neither does, that's bad luck.

I wouldn't hang around in doing this - I don't know when those QCs are due to emerge but it can't be long.

 

[Will Kevans]

It appears to me to be almost certain that the queen that was in the hive has already left, with a large swarm. A further cast swarm may have also left, but let's assume not.

The honey super, at the moment, appears to be a distraction. Your hive isn't going to be filling a super with honey during this process, as a lot of the foraging bees have just left. So I would probably just take it off at this point to be honest.

I don't know what spare equipment you have. If it was me, I would probably split this hive into two as an insurance policy, with half the brood frames in each one (I would use nuc boxes, but you can use hives) leaving one undamaged capped queen cell in each one (pick the largest, knobbliest one for each). I would put the two new boxes next to each other, on the same location as the existing box, facing the same way, so that flying bees have a pretty equal chance of choosing either hive when they return to the location they know. That will divide the population fairly evenly between the 2 hives. Then leave them completely alone for a month to allow the queens to emerge and get mated.

If both do so, you have two hives. If only one does, you can merge them back together. If neither does, that's bad luck.

I wouldn't hang around in doing this - I don't know when those QCs are due to emerge but it can't be long.

I bought a new hive the other day for a split because I sensed swarming may occur. Should I then just divide this equally and put empty frames either side in the hive. Will I harvest any honey this year with all this pullaver? Will I need to destroy any of the Queen cells and how do I differentiate which are capped and about to emerge? Sorry for all the rookie questions!

 

[Will Kevans]

I bought a new hive the other day for a split because I sensed swarming may occur. Should I then just divide this equally and put empty frames either side in the hive. Will I harvest any honey this year with all this pullaver? Will I need to destroy any of the Queen cells and how do I differentiate which are capped and about to emerge? Sorry for all the rookie questions!

So bearing in mind that I will break this hive up which frames should I focus on that I showed on the video to build two separate entities?

 

[Will Kevans]

So bearing in mind that I will break this hive up which frames should I focus on that I showed on the video to build two separate entities?

I've already got the Asian Hornets on my radar and I was thankful to get these little blighters through the winter. I just caught three Queen hornets earlier in the week with beer and grenadine traps. It would be a shame for me to mess up all my diligence at this point!

 

[Erichalfbee]

I thought you were in Canada, Will oops sorry I should read a little more carefully.

 

[Boston Bees]

So bearing in mind that I will break this hive up which frames should I focus on that I showed on the video to build two separate entities?

Just try to roughly keep each half equal. Make sure each half has plenty of capped brood, and plenty of honey so they don't starve. And one capped queen cell of course.

 

[Will Kevans]

I've already got the Asian Hornets on my radar and I was thankful to get these little blighters through the winter. I just caught three Queen hornets earlier in the week with beer and grenadine traps. It would be a shame for me to mess up all my diligence at this point!

I also have one of those small hive boxes, would that be of any use in this instance?

 

[Will Kevans]

I thought you were in Canada, Will oops sorry I should read a little more carefully.

No Im in France.

 

[Boston Bees]

Should I then just divide this equally and put empty frames either side in the hive.

Yes - never leave space in a hive.

Will I harvest any honey this year with all this pullaver?

Maybe, but probably not. You will next year though, because you will be better at swarm prevention and control.

Will I need to destroy any of the Queen cells and how do I differentiate which are capped and about to emerge?

You need to destroy all queen cells except one capped queen cell in each hive.

By definition, if a queen call was capped on the 19th, she must be just a few days (or minutes) from emerging. Do you know how long queen cells are capped for?

 

[Boston Bees]

I also have one of those small hive boxes, would that be of any use in this instance?

Either will be fine

 

[Will Kevans]

Just try to roughly keep each half equal. Make sure each half has plenty of capped brood, and plenty of honey so they don't starve. And one capped queen cell of course.

You say that the original queen has almost certainly fled. So I'm literally going to have about 5 frames in each separate hive, to which I will add empty waxed frames. Do I need supers on each?