swarming

[itma]

Does nobody else think its a bit poor when it comes to advice on AS, (go and look it up in a proper book !)

There are many AS methods (and variations) -- but the point about the QC document is pointing out when you really need to be doing one (by whatever method!)

That's a reasonable place to draw a line, declaring that those details are outside the specific topic being addressed.
I wish I could, much more frequently, be equally strong-willed ...

 

[mbc]

There are many AS methods (and variations) -- but the point about the QC document is pointing out when you really need to be doing one (by whatever method!)

That's a reasonable place to draw a line, declaring that those details are outside the specific topic being addressed.
I wish I could, much more frequently, be equally strong-willed ...

But as a handy little guide, sized so it can go to the apiary with you, wouldn't it be much handier with a description of an artificial swarm rather than pointing you back to the library ?

 

[Walrus]

Swarming and prevention methods is there a best way to prevent your bees swarming in the first place if so what is it and how do you bring it into effect

I agree that lots of reading/course etc are a good idea. One good bit of advice I was given was, at the start, just learn ONE method of swarm control (e.g. demaree as you have mentioned, or one of the various A/S methods). It is much easier to learn one method and not get all mixed up with alternatives at the start of your bee keeping hobby.

I also agree that swarm prevention (as opposed to control) is important because if you do that right you have less A/S's to do. This mostly involves using younger queens & providing the right space at the right time.

As you are in Cheshire there is an old "Cheshire Method" which you might find interesting. I don't do it as not on standard nationals, but it looks like a sound way of working & has a demaree configuration in there too.

http://www.cheshire-bka.co.uk/Articles/CheshireSystemOfBeekeeping.php

 

[oliver90owner]

One good bit of advice I was given was, at the start, just learn ONE method of swarm control

You are up the creek without a paddle if the only method you know is inappropriate?

My approach is somewhat less tunnel-visioned. Know the general ideas of what you want to achieve and choose a method available that is appropriate to the time and conditions.

Thinking about the options, and referring to the texts for clarifaication if necessary, before jumping in too deep is far better than blindly applying the wrong method at the wrong time.

 

[Walrus]

That's right - read loads of books, learn everything instantly and become a god of beekeeping then do the right thing! Easy, innit?


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[Finman]

That's right - read loads of books, learn everything instantly and become a god of beekeeping then do the right thing! Easy, innit?

Artificial swarm advice needs only 1/2 page text.

To prevent swarming, that they do not start to make queen cells, that is more difficult task.

If you have couple of hives, and you try every trick what the world will offer, you surely destroy your hives.

 

[pargyle]

That's right - read loads of books, learn everything instantly and become a god of beekeeping then do the right thing! Easy, innit?


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"The more you know the less you understand"

Tao Te Ching

 

[mbc]

"The more you know the less you understand"

Tao Te Ching

"Don't try and run through Jaimie Roberts"

Manu Tuilagi

 

[Chris B]

Artificial swarm is fine up to a point. Unfortunately when you read the words "find the queen", many beekeepers, especially new ones, will struggle. So you also need a Plan B that doesn't need you to find the queen.

Demaree doesn't need you to find the queen, although personally I'm more familiar with it as a swarm prevention rather than swarm control. I would be a bit nervous using it as swarm control unless I knew the queen was clipped.

Another method is similar to the AS except the queen switches places with a single queen cell i.e. the queen remains with the brood to the side of the original site, and a frame of brood, with 1 queen cell and no bees is placed in a new hive on original site, plus qx + supers. As with the AS you need to reinspect both boxes after a further 7 days.

 

[Chris B]

http://www.cheshire-bka.co.uk/Articles/CheshireSystemOfBeekeeping.php

That's pretty good. It's Demaree but extended to describe management for the whole year. The "problem" with Demaree is some beekeepers reluctance to extract honey from brood frames. I would also question some of the dates given in the Cheshire system as it was devised well before OSR was prevalent and the seasons pan out a bit differently nowadays.

 

[itma]

Is Pagden's method the only swarm control that should be called "an artificial swarm"?

It seems that many think of "AS" as meaning only Pagden's method.
I'm afraid I tend to think of "artificial swarm" as shorthand for any colony division method of preventing an actual swarm.

 

[Chris B]

Isn't Pagden specifically where you switch the old brood to the other side of the AS after 7 days? Yes I agree Itma, I think Artificial Swarm is a generic term, basically anything where Queen and half the bees are split from the brood and the other half of the bees. Manley used to get the old queen, and move her in a swarm box with a load of her bees, and hive in a different apiary with none of her original frames - just as much an AS as the Pagden method I reckon. Snelgrove is also an AS by that definition - it's same as Pagden just vertical not horizontal.

 

[Tim1606]

Isn't Pagden specifically where you switch the old brood to the other side of the AS after 7 days?

Then at some point there is a hedden version?
I got so confused when someone demonstrated it to me.

 

[BeeNice]

Don't waste your money buying books as the is lots of info on the net, here is one good bit of info http://www.wbka.com/pdf/a012queencells.pdf

Not everyone likes reading off the internet, you don't alway have the computer on, and books are very handy to quickly pick up and take information.

 

[stephenpug]

also have a look on utube

 

[simoncav]

Don't waste your money buying books as the is lots of info on the net, here is one good bit of info http://www.wbka.com/pdf/a012queencells.pdf

Not everyone likes reading off the internet, you don't alway have the computer on, and books are very handy to quickly pick up and take information.

Thats a great reference - I've also put a presentation on the Demaree method that we promote within Fleet BKA on Slideshare.net - Just search for fleetbeekeepers...

 

[wood blewit]

to be quite honest i have sat for hours reading the various swarm control methods and after finding the one that i feel would be most practical to my lifestyle i then just happen to read another and i then think aagh maybe this is the right way, so i thought i would put it to the forum being a relative newbee to beekeeping but believe you me i think i have read too many books i aint sure wot me own opinion is ha ha

 

[richardbees]

mbc,
What I like about that wbka web article is that it's concise enough for most new beeks to learn/memorize the basic 'indicators' so when they open the hive and find Q cells they'll know what to do.
richard

 

[wood blewit]

I agree that lots of reading/course etc are a good idea. One good bit of advice I was given was, at the start, just learn ONE method of swarm control (e.g. demaree as you have mentioned, or one of the various A/S methods). It is much easier to learn one method and not get all mixed up with alternatives at the start of your bee keeping hobby.

I also agree that swarm prevention (as opposed to control) is important because if you do that right you have less A/S's to do. This mostly involves using younger queens & providing the right space at the right time.

As you are in Cheshire there is an old "Cheshire Method" which you might find interesting. I don't do it as not on standard nationals, but it looks like a sound way of working & has a demaree configuration in there too.

http://www.cheshire-bka.co.uk/Articles/CheshireSystemOfBeekeeping.php

thank you very much for this my mind is set to follow the cheshire method ,, snuff of reading now methinks cheers

 

[REDWOOD]

Don't waste your money buying books as the is lots of info on the net, here is one good bit of info http://www.wbka.com/pdf/a012queencells.pdf

Not everyone likes reading off the internet, you don't alway have the computer on, and books are very handy to quickly pick up and take information.

Buy a Kindle then you have your own book of information relevant to you