Swarming adventures with flow hive in France and lessons learned

[La Chassagne]

Hello everybody,

Here is a short video on how our swarming adventure of the first bee colony we acquired this spring ended:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thExgguRHOw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thExgguRHOw[/ame]

(With English youtube subtitles)

Don't feed a recently swarmed colony!

Cheers!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why a frame of honey with the swarm? no need at all for that. They would have enough stores carried with them in their stomachs the hive they swarmed from are much more in need of that frame of stores as they will be short of foragers for a while.
Did you check the original hive? you need to go in there, select one good open queen cell and take down the rest. Do it again a few days after.
When did you last check that hive? inspections every seven days are imperative at the moment.
And why do you still have mouse guards on?

 

[La Chassagne]

It seemed like a good idea at the time, to provide them with a bit of nice starter food coming from their own former home. However, as I wrote in the original post: lessons learned are among others, Don't feed a recently swarmed colony!

Why, b.t.w., should I take out all the other queen cells? The queen first to emerge will take care of all other remaining queen cells, right?

Also, why is it imperative to check every 7 days? What could go wrong?

I only recently learned that mice are supposedly only interested in hives when it is below some 10 degrees Celsius. However, since the colony is now much reduced in size, I have left the mouse guard on, because it is not like they are jostling to try to get in and out of the hive, and it might exclude possible intruders other than mice (like bigger insects or even small reptiles). It also makes it more easy for the colony to take handle honey robbing bees from other colonies.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Why, b.t.w., should I take out all the other queen cells? The queen first to emerge will take care of all other remaining queen cells, right?

Because if you have a strong colony left behind they will swarm again and maybe more.
If they are strong the bees will guard the virgins, feeding them but preventing them leaving their queen cells. They will allow the first one out to mature then swarm, then another will be let out until they are reduced to a much smaller colony...by which time you will have many fewer bees and a nuc sized colony.

It also makes it more easy for the colony to take handle honey robbing bees from other colonies.

What it actually does is gives the bees lots of little holes to guard which is much more difficult to defend

 

[La Chassagne]

Thanks, Erichalfbee!

I think in this case, the majority of the colony left with the swarm. We only had this colony for less than three weeks before they swarmed and we got them on (only) 6 frames, so it wasn't that big a colony to begin with, I think.

Little holes are more difficult to defend than a fully opened up entrance..?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What it actually does is gives the bees lots of little holes to guard which is much more difficult to defend

It can also knock off the pollen from their legs which they've worked to hard to collect

Little holes are more difficult to defend than a fully opened up entrance..?

Take away the mouseguard, reduce the entrance down to one aperture three or four inches wide.

 

[Pete D]

Instead of a frame of honey try a frame of brood to keep the swarm in the box.

 

[oliver90owner]

I've yet to see any positives for these things - only propaganda.

Not many experienced beeks jumping on the bandwagon - mostly the inexperienced, I would guess?

Perhaps they should just shut up until they can demonstrate these things are statistically better than natural comb. That may well mean them shutting up for good, at least here in the UK!

 

[B+.]

Also, why is it imperative to check every 7 days? What could go wrong?

If you inspect on a regular 7 day cycle, you have time to intercept the development of queens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_bee). If you leave it too much longer it is possible that cells may develop and you can lose a swarm

 

[Finman]

.
What I would do in that swarm case, I would put a swarmbox above the cluster and bees walk themselves into the box. Hugging with the bar you may get ridd of the queen.

At least I would not smoke inside the box, where they are going.

It is a shame, that beginners put into youtube this kind of material, which only teaches wrong habits.
....mouse quard included.... When bees are active, they keep away mice.

 

[Finman]

It seemed like a good idea at the time, to provide them with a bit of nice starter food coming from their own former home.

Also, why is it imperative to check every 7 days? What could go wrong?
.

Nothing wrong in that food frame.
When I have a swarm or an AS, I put 3 frames winter food frames or crystallized honey frames into the hive, that bees clean them for laying and use sugar for comb making. In a week frames are empty and full of brood.

7 days interwall in inspecting is for practical reason. In theory 10 days is deadline, but 7 days give flexibility, if you have cold or rainy days.
It is handy too, when you are at work, and you inspect the hives at weekend.

 

[Finman]

.
When you catch a swarm, you may note that queen starts to lay from the side frame towards the centre. It does not start from the centre like beekeepers tend to think.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

why is it imperative to check every 7 days? What could go wrong?

I think the video demonstrates exactly what could go wrong - you lose swarms.

BTW - tell us what you know about swarm control and artificial swarm methods.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I think the video demonstrates exactly what could go wrong - you lose swarms.

BTW - tell us what you know about swarm control and artificial swarm methods.

I'm thinking this story matches the expectations of many beekeepers regarding flow hives being sold to people with ambitions and good intentions but little or no knowledge of the nuances of beekeeping.

 

[La Chassagne]

Everybody who starts out is full of ambitions and good intentions, whether they start out with wax foundation frames, flow frames, plastic foundation frames, or no foundation frames, a dadant, langstroth, top-bar hive, warre hive, basket hive and what have you.

The practical knowledge and nuances of beekeeping are learned while actually being a beekeeper and getting constructive and friendly feedback from more experienced beekeepers on forums and e.g. at your local beekeepers association (who at various times in various -if not most- situations, do not seem to agree among themselves!).

With the sharp decline of number of bees worldwide, it is very important that more people are getting interested in -and are becoming beekeepers (whatever motivated them to do so and whatever type of hive they use).

Have a great rest of the weekend!

 

[kazmcc]

With the sharp decline of number of bees worldwide, it is very important that more people are getting interested in -and are becoming beekeepers (whatever motivated them to do so and whatever type of hive they use).

Honeybees are doing pretty well actually. Its our wild bees that are in serious decline, not our pet bees

This is what bee keeping is about, learning from those more experienced, and you can listen to the advice of any of the folks who have commented on this thread and you won't go wrong. Well................

The important thing is you are willing to take advice, and happy to share your lessons, which is a great help to others. Keep on enjoying your bees

 

[La Chassagne]

Honeybees are doing pretty well actually. Its our wild bees that are in serious decline, not our pet bees

That's not what I've heard.
Loss of commercial honeybees in the US since 2006: 40%
Loss of commercial honeybees in Europe since 1985: 25%
Loss of commercial honeybees in the UK since 2010: 45%

But even if it were "only" the wild bees who are in decline, more honey bee colonies are then needed to help compensate for that.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Everybody who starts out is full of ambitions and good intentions, whether they start out with wax foundation frames, flow frames, plastic foundation frames, or no foundation frames, a dadant, langstroth, top-bar hive, warre hive, basket hive and what have you.

The practical knowledge and nuances of beekeeping are learned while actually being a beekeeper and getting constructive and friendly feedback from more experienced beekeepers on forums and e.g. at your local beekeepers association (who at various times in various -if not most- situations, do not seem to agree among themselves!).

With the sharp decline of number of bees worldwide, it is very important that more people are getting interested in -and are becoming beekeepers (whatever motivated them to do so and whatever type of hive they use).

Have a great rest of the weekend!

When the flow hive was first mentioned in the forum it's reception was somewhat variable, with experienced beekeepers expressing concerns that people would buy them thinking the hive could be placed in a garden and all the owner would need to do would be to draw honey from the tap. Bees requirements were not mentioned nor their responses to a host of factors.
You do at least sound willing to learn but it's a very steep learning curve. Generally it's a good idea to undergo some training before embarking on the road to beekeeping, or have someone who can advise, demonstrate and mentor you. Jenkins question about swarm control is one which you ought to address, even if you only go for one of the usual methods. Pagden is probably the one to aim for
This doesn't necessarily mean you can't jump in with both feet which is how you appear to have approached it and one of the better beekeeping books such as Ted Hoopers Guide to Bees and Honey will be an invaluable resource. This forum can help but is no substitute for proper training. Now you have your own bees the best advice I can give you is to learn to differentiate between contributors who have proper knowledge relevant to your location/climate and those who serve only to distract. You've already identified that a question can be answered by conflicting opinions. Use logic - if an answer sounds ridiculous it probably is.
Good luck

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The practical knowledge and nuances of beekeeping are learned while actually being a beekeeper and getting constructive and friendly feedback from more experienced beekeepers on forums

But knowing the basics (which it is getting more obvious by the min ute you haven't bothered doing) before even getting bees is the logical and resposible way to approach the keeping of any livestock. Doing nothing is unfair on the bees and other people in the area.
I'll ask again - what do you know about swarm control?

With the sharp decline of number of bees worldwide, it is very important that more people are getting interested in -and are becoming beekeepers

The 'sharp decline' seems to be something you believe in and not many others. Regardless, they won't really be helped by sloppy neglectful beekeeping.

If nothing else - I've learnt that the sum total of what you will take onboard after this mishap is - zero.

Making silly little videos and posting them on yootoob doesn't make a good beekeeper.

 

[Tremyfro]

It is true that many of the people who bought the Flow frames had little or no knowledge of beekeeping. Consequently we hear of some new beekeepers struggling with learning how to look after their bees.
Personally, I think the Flow brought beekeeping to the public notice and at a stroke increased the numbers of new beekeepers. A few in the UK but a lot in OZ Europe and the USA ...some areas which had been suffering from bee decline. The Flow team have done a lot to help new beekeepers but at the end of the day it is up to each individual to seek the courses, help, mentoring and information they need.
I can't really understand why so many established beekeepers are so negative about the Flow. It clearly works as we have seen from the many home videos from across the world. Whether the nectar flows are strong enough here in the UK remains to be seen, but I can't see why bees wouldn't use them. The bees are happy to build comb on plastic frames....and storing nectar in them.
I have Flow frames and I keep my bees in Beehaus. So a double whammy for critique....ha ha.
However, what I do know is ....it is about beekeeping...not flows, hives or anything else...the forum is a source of help, advice and camaraderie. For most of us...sharing a hobby.