Swarming. & 14x12s

[jonnybeegood]

I got two packages of bees last year, same bees, i put them both in the same type of hive, both brand new, all on fresh foundation. One swarmed in july, one didnt, the one that swarmed was a more prolific layer & they were both 2014 queens. The other didnt swarm. Everyone i have spoken to say give bees more space to reduce the chance of swarming, obviously once the queen cups start. & if they lay eggs then i need to act but surely to build up a large colony without them swarming before they get built up they need space. I'm not talking about empty space just more room to lay. The one that swarmed only laid 4 Q cells, the swarm was captured, put in a nuc & is now in a hive still doing well.

 

[Finman]

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It is rare, that if colony has drawn couple of box foundations, and then it swarms. It must have swarming genes in good condition.
More profilic and swarmy may tell, that colony has hybrid vigour.

But it is impossible to draw conclusions from 2 hives.

When you have 10 or 20 hives, and you compare your yard's swarming to other beeks' swarming, you get a hint, how earger your hives are to swarm.

When I had 10 years Carniolan bees, it looks like nothing stops they swarming. Even AS was difficult to get through. Italians are much more predictable to handle.

But it is clear, that if you take virgins from swarmed hive, it is quarantee that you get swarms next year.

Clipped wing, and swarm control is easier.

 

[Hawklord]

Having enough space is part of it, but also there needs to be enough queen pheromone and that comes down to age of queen and colony size. The problem with 14 X 12's will be lifting full boxes to do manipulations. I use standard nationals and tried double brood last year, all I can say is they were later in Swarm preparations but the colony's were big, gave me a good crop, and produced nucs that collected a good amount.

 

[Davelin]

Everyone i have spoken to say give bees more space to reduce the chance of swarming,

Read the replies here again and follow some of the good advice given. You may be speaking to the wrong people or adjusting what they have said.

Space may well be one factor in triggering swarms, but it is only one factor.

Two 14 x 12 boxes is likely to do more harm than good.

 

[BeeJayBee]

They don't only need space in the brood area, they also need space to store honey.

 

[Finman]

They don't only need space in the brood area, they also need space to store honey.

And for nectar drying.

 

[MuswellMetro]

And for nectar drying.

yes, often forgotten that they need space to dry the nectar

 

[Summerslease]

I'm on 14x12s and will be following Wally Shaw's advice on preemptive swarm control using Snelgrove boards this year.

 

[maddydog]

Can't envisage needing two 14*12 boxes. Some examples of things I would do: split a few frames off for a nuc, add more supers, boost weaker colonies etc.

 

[midnight sun]

I got two packages of bees last year, same bees, i put them both in the same type of hive, both brand new, all on fresh foundation. One swarmed in july, one didnt, the one that swarmed was a more prolific layer & they were both 2014 queens. The other didnt swarm. Everyone i have spoken to say give bees more space to reduce the chance of swarming, obviously once the queen cups start. & if they lay eggs then i need to act but surely to build up a large colony without them swarming before they get built up they need space. I'm not talking about empty space just more room to lay. The one that swarmed only laid 4 Q cells, the swarm was captured, put in a nuc & is now in a hive still doing well.

This statement seems to be your problem. You are assuming that both 'packages' you bought are identical in EVERY way. They are not. Each one will have it's own idiosyncrasies' as they are unlikely to be 'clones' and therefore act like 'clones'. One may WANT to swarm the other may NOT. It could be as simple as that and no amount of wanting them to act the way you expect or want will change that. This is what you need to understand before the advice you have been given by others will convince you that they are right. regards Dave

 

[jonnybeegood]

This statement seems to be your problem. You are assuming that both 'packages' you bought are identical in EVERY way. They are not. Each one will have it's own idiosyncrasies' as they are unlikely to be 'clones' and therefore act like 'clones'. One may WANT to swarm the other may NOT. It could be as simple as that and no amount of wanting them to act the way you expect or want will change that. This is what you need to understand before the advice you have been given by others will convince you that they are right. regards Dave

No i understand all are different i was just showing the difference in the two i have, i didnt expect them to be the same.