Swarm witnessed

[Sutty]

I had a colony swarm yesterday (mea culpa - last inspection on 14th!), I watched it happen and collected the swarm into a nuc. Today I have gone through the swarmed colony and cut back to a single QC.
Just wondering, as I knew which hive it was from, what would have happened if I'd reunited the swarm with the original colony, either before or after removing QCs?

 

[pargyle]

I had a colony swarm yesterday (mea culpa - last inspection on 14th!), I watched it happen and collected the swarm into a nuc. Today I have gone through the swarmed colony and cut back to a single QC.
Just wondering, as I knew which hive it was from, what would have happened if I'd reunited the swarm with the original colony, either before or after removing QCs?

The odds are that they would go off again ... you have to satify their desire to create a new colony ... ie: a different location to the original hive and basically an empty box (be it with some drawn comb and foundation/foundationless frames) and no brood ...

If you try to reunite immediately with the colony they came from then they won't have 'swarmed' and they will try again,

There's nothing to stop you recombining the two colonies once they are both established as colonies in their own right ,,, obviously, despatching one of the queens.

 

[Sutty]

That's pretty much what I thought, just wondered if the "slim down the queen and swarm" process would satisfy them.

 

[JamezF]

That's pretty much what I thought, just wondered if the "slim down the queen and swarm" process would satisfy them.

I'd guess if you reunited then whatever it was that caused the swarm impulse in the first place would still exist, so they'd still want to do so.

Perhaps it might be possible to unite them as a two-queen colony though, with the swarm in a brood box of foundation on top of a QX and the supers? Never tried it. Just idly wondering.

James

 

[Sutty]

Interesting idea!
Could be useful if I lose another (hopefully not, all seemed well on inspection today) as I'm running out of floors and roofs!

 

[JamezF]

You'd probably need an eke with an entrance on top of the QX, so the drones can get out. Should have thought of that earlier.

I'm sure someone must have tried something like that before. It would be a little like the result of a Demarree perhaps?

James

 

[Sutty]

Or a top entrance

 

[JamezF]

Exactly so.

James

 

[Antipodes]

I had a colony swarm yesterday (mea culpa - last inspection on 14th!), I watched it happen and collected the swarm into a nuc. Today I have gone through the swarmed colony and cut back to a single QC.
Just wondering, as I knew which hive it was from, what would have happened if I'd reunited the swarm with the original colony, either before or after removing QCs?

How long did it take from swarming from the hive to settling... approximately?

 

[user 20297]

Or a top entrance

For the exiting of drones in a Demaree or similar, I've considered drilling a 10mm hole through one of the wedge plugs in an Abelo box.

 

[Sutty]

How long did it take from swarming from the hive to settling... approximately?

Largely settled in about 10 minutes, though more spread out than they would eventually be.

 

[Wingy]

You'd probably need an eke with an entrance on top of the QX, so the drones can get out. Should have thought of that earlier.

I'm sure someone must have tried something like that before. It would be a little like the result of a Demarree perhaps?

James

i have done this, hive ended up :-
Floor, double brood, QX, 4 supers, QX, eke with entrance, brood, CB, roof.
It worked but inspections were a right pain

 

[nikca]

Re: the title.
It was usually a case of “swarm HEARD” in my experience.
I was once up on the barnroof about 6 meters above the apiary. My thought was “that’s either a swarm leaving or a Panzer division”…

 

[Robert Barry]

You'd probably need an eke with an entrance on top of the QX, so the drones can get out. Should have thought of that earlier.

I'm sure someone must have tried something like that before. It would be a little like the result of a Demarree perhaps?

James

Wouldn't an eke lead to the production of brace comb? I would have thought an old top (inner cover) with the ply removed would do the job better. Go round the inner edge with a sharp knife (take care) or use a coping saw.

 

[Wingy]

Wouldn't an eke lead to the production of brace comb? I would have thought an old top (inner cover) with the ply removed would do the job better. Go round the inner edge with a sharp knife (take care) or use a coping saw.

10-15 mm notched eke above a top QX and below the top brood box (in my experience) they treated it like a floor & never built brace comb there

 

[Robert Barry]

10-15 mm notched eke above a top QX and below the top brood box (in my experience) they treated it like a floor & never built brace comb there

I've never seen such a shallow eke. My ekes are all the same, about half the height of a super. Agree that 10-15 mm would probably do the trick. Don't know what a notched eke is.

 

[JamezF]

Don't know what a notched eke is.

Just an eke with a notch cut out of it to make an entrance.

James

 

[Robert Barry]

So do the bees in the upper chamber enter and leave through the notch? Is this a temporary measure until the colonies have become fully accustomed to each other?

 

[Wingy]

I've never seen such a shallow eke. My ekes are all the same, about half the height of a super. Agree that 10-15 mm would probably do the trick. Don't know what a notched eke is.

this is something I’ve made myself probably better described as a shim or spacer I use them when taking multiple boxes off and stacking them prior to inspecting the bottom box first. I place these between the stack to give that extra bit of space so I don’t crush bees. I then cut an entrance to one side of this shim / spacer so the bees can use it as I described. Hope that makes more sense . Eke was possibly a misleading term to use

 

[JamezF]

So do the bees in the upper chamber enter and leave through the notch? Is this a temporary measure until the colonies have become fully accustomed to each other?

You'd want both QXes in place until the supers are removed, so you'd need the top entrance available until then in all likelihood.

I've never done a Demarree and reunited afterwards, but I'd guess once the supers are removed you get rid of the upper entrance and both QXes and let the bees sort out which queen they want to keep. They might even keep both.

James