Swarm Prevention

[Dave /Oscroft]

Where can I get info on the methods of swarm prevention know as Pagden, Demaree and Snelgrove ?

dave W

 

[MuswellMetro]

Where can I get info on the methods of swarm prevention know as Pagden, Demaree and Snelgrove ?

dave W

try this for demaree

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/demaree.html



pagden is really just the standard Artificial Swarm or AS on here, ( i think)

 

[Poly Hive]

There is no such thing as swarm prevention.

If your bees are exhibiting signs of swarming, (drawing Q cells) then you need to artificially swarm them.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

Swarm prevention - no such thing? There most certainly is!

PH is right that when they decide to go into swarm mode you must do some sort of artificial swarm, or be very lucky for them to change their collective mind.

However there are lots of things one can do to minimise the risk of them going into swarm mode. Space comes to mind as an obvious example.

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

There is no such thing as swarm prevention.

Surely is. But when queen cells exist, it its cutting swarming.

Preventing actions are for example

- choosing race or strain / slow swarming
- 1 years old queens in hives
- give foundations to draw before swarming season
- enlarge in time
- give room to nectar and extract capped honey
- enough ventilation
- make nucs and split big hives
- turn brood boxes
- lift brood and food frames over exluder and put the queen lay in empty combs (popular in Australia)


If you take queens from swarming cells, it is very difficult to prevent swarming. It is bees' natural habit to reproduce.

http://www.allenkybees.com/Publications/Other/Swarm_Prev_Control_PM.pdf

.

 

[Finman]

.
Australian advices: http://informedfarmers.com/best-management-practice-for-beekeeping-in-the-australian-environment/

Element 7

Swarm control
It is normally accepted good practice for a beekeeper to do all in their power to prevent a colony from swarming. Swarming is a natural phenomenon that ensures the survival of the species through a colony reproducing itself. Swarming normally occurs in spring, allowing the colony to establish itself over the following summer and autumn before winter brings a serious reduction in flowering species from which food can be obtained. The selection criteria for commercial breeding stock does not tolerate any swarming behavior.

Feral bees, on the other hand, are much more likely to issue swarms than managed bees. Beekeepers should consider the following, particularly in the spring period.

* Re-queen on a regular basis –young queens have less inclination to swarm than old queens.
* Replace the queens in any colony that has swarmed, to reduce the possibility of future swarming.
* Relieve congestion in a hive in spring when colonies can expand in populations extremely rapidly.
* Continue to select strains of bees that demonstrate a low tendency to swarm.

 

[Finman]

.
When selecting nonswarming strain I have done one mistake:

1 year old queen perhaps does not swarm but it swarms at the age of 2 years.

When I keep 1 year old queens and take daughters from that queen, I do not know its hidden tendency to sawrm later.

So, morther queen should be 2 years old or more that you see does it swarm.

My friend keeps 2 years queens and his swarming tendency in the yard is very low.

.

 

[Black Comb]

Clipping the queen isn't really prevention but if they swarm you do not lose the flying bees.

 

[Finman]

doble

 

[Finman]

Clipping the queen isn't really prevention but if they swarm you do not lose the flying bees.

At least to me it is to prevent bees to escape .

 

[isc26]

TRy this for Snelgrove
Snelgrove designed a piece of equipment called a Snelgrove Board (the coincidences never cease!). A Snelgrove Board (SgB) is a piece of equipment very much like an inner cover with a few "extras".
Rather than a hole in the center of an inner cover, the SgB has a much larger opening that is double screened, hence a SgB is sometimes referred to as a double screen board.
Additionally, a SgB has entrances on three sides of the board on both top and bottom (six in total). The side with no entrances is the front of the board.
For later discussion imaging that the top entrances are numbered 1, 3 and 5 for the right, back and left entrances and the bottom entrances are numbered 2, 4 and 6 for the right, back and left respectively.
Towards the beginning of swarming season a SgB is used in combination with a queen excluder and hive manipulations on a double brood chamber colony to simulate a swarm while keeping both the parent population and swarming population combined at the same location!
How is this possible?
The hive manipulations consist of segregating the brood frames so those with eggs, larvae and brood are moved to the top hive body and empty frames are segregated to the lower body.
This is another technique that hinges on finding the queen. When she is found she is moved to the lower brood chamber on a frame of eggs, larvae and unsealed brood. This should be the only frame in the lower brood chamber with any stages of brood - all other frames in the lower brood chamber should be empty or contain only stores (pollen, nectar and honey).
Above the bottom brood chamber go a queen excluder, super(s), and the top brood chamber containing occupied brood frames.
Three days later the super(s) will be occupied and the nurse bees will have passed through the queen excluder to the brood frames in the top chamber.
At this point in time the SgB is inserted with entrance 1 open - all other entrances on the SgB are closed. For the next few days, field bees from the top brood chamber will exit through entrance 1 and join the population below the SgB by using the original front entrance.
One week after the initial manipulation the beekeeper closes entrance 1 and opens entrances 2 and 5. Thus, the bees from the top brood chamber that "graduated" to field bees return to and reinforce the lower population by using entrance 2.
During the next week the top brood chamber bees that become field bees will get accustomed to using entrance 5. While the bees in the lower chamber use either the original front entrance or entrance 2.
At the end of the second week the beekeeper closes entrances 2 and 5 and opens entrances 3 and 6. Again the top brood chamber field bees reinforce the lower population by returning to the left hand lower entrance (entrance 6) and the top back entrance (entrance 3) becomes the top brood chamber's main entrance.
By using the entrances in the SgB in a round- robin fashion, the top brood chamber becomes a "bee generator" for the lower colony.
The top brood chamber, being queenless and initially containing all the eggs, larvae and brood will immediately commence to raise a new queen. However, the top brood chamber will not swarm because the population never reaches sufficient numbers to cast a swarm. The bottom chamber never swarms because the brood rearing cycle was interrupted by the initial manipulations.
This method artificially casts a swarm from a colony, keeps both populations in a single unit, effectively sets up a two queen colony, and leaves a requeened colony at the end of the season when the upper and lower chambers are reunited.

 

[Poly Hive]

The above is excellent until you are taken ill, called away, on holiday or die.

someone on here recalled hearing that someone called on Snelgrove but was told he was busy capturing a swarm.....

Seriously. Find queen, put in nuc with some frames of brood and bees, replace pulled frames with foundation, go through the brood box/s and knock out all the advanced cells leaving the youngest one. Exercise patience.

When new queen is laying decide whether to keep the old one or unite the two.

Sorted.

KISS

PH

 

[drstitson]

my first port of call would be to enter "Pagden", "Demaree" and "Snelgrove" into google.

FWIW google is a new fangled site that finds information for you.

 

[Dave /Oscroft]

swarming (being carefull about the wording!)

Thankyou ISC26, drstitson, Muswell metro & Finman,
I have been looking at the method similar to the Snelgrove method, "Beekeeping in a nutshell" 14 by Ken Basterfield, it seems to be a simpler version so may have a go with this one aswell as the artificial swarm method when the inevitable happens !!!!
Has anyone else tried it ?

regards
Dave W

 

[Poly Hive]

Sorry but can you post a link to the advice as giving a book title, (and do you mean version 14?) is not very specific for those of us not blest with the volume in question?

Seems I am unlikely to buy it either as Amazon dinna seem to stock it or know the author, odd?

PH

 

[victor meldrew]

isc26,
The Horsley board does all that without the fiddling about with all those wedges

John Wilkinson

 

[Poly Hive]

This is too complex.

Find queen, pop in nuc box with a couple of frames of brood and shake in another couple of frames of bees, squish all cells apart from the youngest. Fill gaps with frames of foundation.

Exercise some patience.

Sorted.

Unite later if required.

PH

 

[MuswellMetro]

Sorry but can you post a link to the advice as giving a book title, (and do you mean version 14?) is not very specific for those of us not blest with the volume in question?

Seems I am unlikely to buy it either as Amazon dinna seem to stock it or know the author, odd?

PH

They obviusly don't do them in the scottish tongue

"Beekeeping in a Nutshell - 50 titles written by experts originally published by Northern Bee Books. With the publishers permission we have scanned and are putting a 1-13 of the titles online. You can still purchase the Nutshell series 14-50 from the publishers. "

Northern bee books , nice cheep pamphlet book

http://www.beedata.com/nutshell.htm

 

[richardbees]

Yes, imo artificial swarming is the same as 'swarm prevention' as I think the latter infers a swarm leaving your apiary/control

Following Ted Hooper's instructions in "Guide to Bees and Honey" I once made a Snelgrove board and it worked a treat.....fascinating to control the bees by opening and closing the six little entrances!

I'm 6ft but even so had to put a stepladder next to the hive by August to finally dismantle it as it finished up as the stand, floor, bb, qe, super,super, snelgrove board, bb, qe, super, super, super, cover board, roof .

 

[For want of a better word]

Yes, imo artificial swarming is the same as 'swarm prevention' as I think the latter infers a swarm leaving your apiary/control

Following Ted Hooper's instructions in "Guide to Bees and Honey" I once made a Snelgrove board and it worked a treat.....fascinating to control the bees by opening and closing the six little entrances!

I'm 6ft but even so had to put a stepladder next to the hive by August to finally dismantle it as it finished up as the stand, floor, bb, qe, super,super, snelgrove board, bb, qe, super, super, super, cover board, roof .

Is this a TALL STOREY ????