Swarm Prevention

[B+.]

Get used to it, Spring's a long way off.

Sometimes, I think hibernation is a very good idea!

 

[Finman]

Sometimes, I think hibernation is a very good idea!

Thanks to Heaven, you feel so only sometimes.

You joined to forum in January. Now you have 1700 contributions. Almost maternal advices.

DON'T GIVE UP!. .

 

[B+.]

Thanks to Heaven, you feel so only sometimes.

You joined to forum in January. Now you have 1700 contributions. Almost maternal advices.

DON'T GIVE UP!. .

Wow!
I think thats the nicest thing you've ever said Finman

 

[Finman]

.
PS.
But you need not not repeat every week, that Finland and Scotland is not the same.

Once a month is enough that I remember that fact.

 

[B+.]

Once a month is enough that I remember that fact.

Ok......Since I haven't reminded you this month...... Finland is definitely not the same as England (or Scotland...or Ireland...or.....)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thank you all (well some for your input) my original question was about prevention and not control, the Demaree method answers my question perfectly and it seems pretty straight forward to me, my only concern would be getting the timing right but we all have to start somewhere and learn from our own mistakes which tend to be ingrained in the old grey matter, does anyone have any links/videos or names of authors who cover the Demaree method.
Thank you
Steve.

George Demarree's original article is available online somewhere, Snelgrove's 'Swarming, it's control and prevention' details it, but he must have got distracted because his method is nothing like Demarree's but is handy to know for those working double brood. Pargyle's link
http://countryrubes.com/images/Swarm_Prevention_By_Demaree_Method.pdf
is one of the better and clearer explanations I've seen, what more do you need? as for videos, well.................................

 

[Finman]

Ok......Since I haven't reminded you this month...... Finland is definitely not the same as England (or Scotland...or Ireland...or.....)

Thank you.

I have been in England 6 times. IT seemed a little bit different.
It was roads, fields and houses. Not much nature.
Our country is full of trees and bushes. Some houses here and there.
Almost all houses are under 100 years old.

In the Central England sheep had eaten all. Not even one weed bush on hills.

 

[Finman]

Ok......Since I haven't reminded you this month...... Finland is definitely not the same as England (or Scotland...or Ireland...or.....)

And I know that Wales, Ireland and England are not the same. They have borders. Scotland I do not know, if it even exists.

 

[maddydog]

Experimented with Demaree method this year - only two colonies though! Started very early (well before swarming fever and no signs of charged QCs) but both parent colonies built up rapidly and required an AS later in the season. The advantages are pretty obvious if it works but personally I'm going to stick to looking for charged QCs and a good old vertical AS.

As for the OP I'd suggest trying Demaree (correctly as per JBM) and making your own mind up. What's the worst that can happen? For the vast majority of people on here it's a hobby and surely a bit of experimentation and learning is a good thing?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Started very early (well before swarming fever and no signs of charged QCs) but both parent colonies built up rapidly and required an AS later in the season.

That's the thing, to do it properly - especially if you start early in the season, you must continue to rotate the frames - moving frames of brood from the Q+ box up into the Q- box and replacing them with frames from the top box where the brood has emerged

 

[Thymallus]

That's the thing, to do it properly -

It would be helpful if you aficionados of this method actually told us trolls exactly how it should be done. We are renown for only having granite for grey matter.

 

[Tremyfro]

I've only just caught up with this thread...took ages to read...and a few chuckles too!
This year both my double brood colonies were on 12 and 14 national brood frames...pretty much filled edge to edge with brood. Neither made queen cells. There were plenty of drones in both hives. I think that the forage situation was stopping swarming. There wasn't a time when they were able to fill the supers and get it capped off before they had to start eating it.....this was repeated throughout the summer....fill it ....eat it!
I know the demarree is done before swarm preparations....since it will be done within the long hive ...fairly easy manipulation. Moving frames sideways to keep the queen side fairly empty of brood...I understand. Now if I don't want to make a nuc.....do I just keep pinching out the queen cells and adding the filled brood frames? Is this continuous throughout the summer? At what point will I join the two halves together...for a big work force? Or do I have to allow a queen to develop? Then remove her to join the 2 halves together again?
Somehow...it doesn't make sense....the queen side bees will eventually start to reduce in number if I keep moving the filled brood frames over.....

 

[Hivemaker.]

At what point will I join the two halves together...for a big work force?

With a demaree they remain as one strong unit, as one strong work force, no two halves to rejoin.

 

[Finman]

no two halves to rejoin.

I feel very easy to make two halves and then I join them.

Clipped Queen, that you do not loose you bees if the swarm starts to go. Swarm returns to the hive after 30 minutes

Then make AS

What you need for AS

- 2 boxes foundations
- extra floor , self made from ply
- piece of 3 cm polystyre board for a cover.


You have nursed the hive a year around and now you do not want to do this?

Is it easier to take a swarm from apple tree ? However you need them when you catch a swarm from 15 m high tree branch.

And join hiveparts....just put them together. No papers or Aude Cologne.

 

[Finman]

Thank you all (well some for your input) my original question was about prevention and not control, the Demaree method answers my question perfectly .

Yeah. And you just believe that demareering works just like that.

When bees's swarming genes are OK,they do not mind about Demareering. You do not have time to say cat, when hive is doing its swarm cells.

What you need first of all is beestock, which is selected and breeded away best steam to swarm. And stock will not stay as nonswarmy long among mongrel colonies.

Swarming procedures need lots of skills and experience. It is not easy even for professional beekeepers.

You must do either AS works or breeding works. Breeding procedure for few hive owner is to buy good queens.

It is easier to buy a piece of land from moon than prevent swarming.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Somehow...it doesn't make sense....the queen side bees will eventually start to reduce in number if I keep moving the filled brood frames over.....

With a demaree they remain as one strong unit, as one strong work force, no two halves to rejoin.

As HM says - there are no 'two sides' bees can circulate freely between the two brood boxes, you just keep on taking down the QC's until you judge swarming fever is over, you can then consolidate the two boxes and carry on - I usually find the top box gets filled with honey eventually, so at the end of the season I just extract, get rid of any frames that are past their best and the rest I keep for next years manipulations

 

[Tremyfro]

Ah ...thx...getting it clearer in my mind now.
So in a long hive....I move all the brood frames to the empty end.....put in the separator board with a queen excluder in it. Give the Queen end new foundation. Allow worker bees to go back and forth as necessary. I take down Queen cells until they stop making them. Then rejoin the hive into a whole. Do I open another entrance or only allow them the original entrance?
I think I was confusing the lateral A/S within a long hive with the demarree.
I think I have it now. Thank you muchly for the help.
Still not entirely clear on when to start the demarree....so I hope divine intervention will descend upon me when trying to decide! Failing that.....once 5-7 full frames of 14x12 frames are full of brood....I will start the demarree and see how I get on.
I hope to get all my,this years colonies, into long hives in the spring too....so it will be fun keeping up with them this coming year!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

you are better off giving the Q+ end drawn comb if you have any - it's also handy to have an entrance at the Q- end to allow drones that have emerged to exit the hive - not a nice sight seeing drones stuck in the QX

 

[Erichalfbee]

Ah ...thx...getting it clearer in my mind now.
So in a long hive....I move all the brood frames to the empty end.....put in the separator board with a queen excluder in it. Give the Queen end new foundation. Allow worker bees to go back and forth as necessary. I take down Queen cells until they stop making them. Then rejoin the hive into a whole. Do I open another entrance or only allow them the original entrance?
I think I was confusing the lateral A/S within a long hive with the demarree.
I think I have it now. Thank you muchly for the help.
Still not entirely clear on when to start the demarree....so I hope divine intervention will descend upon me when trying to decide! Failing that.....once 5-7 full frames of 14x12 frames are full of brood....I will start the demarree and see how I get on.
I hope to get all my,this years colonies, into long hives in the spring too....so it will be fun keeping up with them this coming year!

Let us know how you get on.I'm very interested to see if it works. I can't Demarree mine as I'm on 14x12 and can't lift the boxes. I see you're on FB. Are you adding a flow hive to your stable?

 

[Tremyfro]

Yes...I can open an entrance at the q- end...for the drones to escape.
Now to write it down and follow in the spring. I will let you know Erica...if it works. I agree...14x12 boxes are far beyond my lifting ability...well to be truthful...so are nationals! That is why I have been changing over to long hives. Only got to lift a frame at a time!
Will I have a Flow?....I might...time will tell. It seems an interesting concept...probably a fun thing to do with a good flow on and if they can cap the honey. This year would have been hopeless!!!