Swarm or Supercedure

[grizzly]

Do you think the cells shown on these images are Swarm Cells or are they Supercedure Cells. ?

 

[shonabee]

....as am sure you have way more ability than me (am now in week 3 of having bees!) am sure you'll have the sense not to be swayed by my "judgement"...!

 

[grizzly]

Its only a bit of fun, i will get it going, to be honest i have my ideas but in no way do i expect to be right.

Its been puzzling me since saturday.

 

[Poly Hive]

How many frames had cells?

PH

 

[grizzly]

there were between 3-6 of the longer cells, only a couple with jelly in, most frames had a few play cups on. no eggs in them and none sealed over.

I always thought "Swarm" cells were invariably on the bottom of the frames or comb ? again i am aware bees dont read books.

 

[jon]

I always thought "Swarm" cells were invariably on the bottom of the frames or comb ? again i am aware bees dont read books.

Swarm cells can be anywhere. Those look like swarm cells to me as supersedure is usually just one or two.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Swarm cells can be anywhere. Those look like swarm cells to me as supersedure is usually just one or two.

That is my vote as well

 

[Polyanwood]

3-6 would be too many for supersedure I thought??

 

[Poly Hive]

Looks like a sup situation to me.

+ From "Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Beekeping"

"It is generally said that colonies in the process of supercedure will have between 1 to 6 cells and those swarming will have 6 to 20 or more."

Wedmore says ; " Para 170, If one of the Queen cells is cut open and found to extend back to the mid-rib, retaining the origional base of a worker cell, one may be sure that is is not a cell built for swarming."
PH

 

[VEG]

I voted supercedure

 

[i.b.nuttz]

I Think Definitely swarm cells

 

[Poly Hive]

Right then Grizzly please cut one back and define it.

PH

 

[grizzly]

" Para 170, If one of the Queen cells is cut open and found to extend back to the mid-rib, retaining the origional base of a worker cell, one may be sure that is is not a cell built for swarming."
PH

Very interesting PH, will cut one back tomorrow after work and take some pics.

intresting to see how close the poll result is between the two, shame out of 141 views only 21 have had a go.

 

[MrTrueman]

I just voted swarm....purely on the number of cells and what I have been taught. That makes its neck and neck between swarn a supercedure!

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Hey Grizzly

How about as a test, you do nothing with these QC's and see what happens?

 

[Roy S]

Where these the only QC's in the colony? or were there more on other frames?...I voted Swarm

 

[Poly Hive]

Now you see there is a lack of reading the thread going on.

I asked now many and G said 6.

From number, position, experience and research in theory it should be a sup.

Lets await the opening of the cell....

PH

 

[GrumbleBee]

Supercedure Cell – a queen cell usually found in the middle of the frame. This tells you the bees are replacing their queen. These are different from swarm cells. Swarm cells hang from the bottom of the frame.

I voted Supercedure Cell

 

[raysa]

I am a great believer in PH's signature "Bees to nothing invariably". So while supercedure cells are often in the middle of comb and swarm cells often at the edges, and the numbers are often more for swarming, none of these guides are certain.

I would even amend Wedmore's quote "If one of the Queen cells is cut open and found to extend back to the mid-rib, retaining the origional base of a worker cell, one may be sure that is is not a cell built for swarming." Replace "one may be sure" with "one may perhaps be led to believe"!

But in any case, as jimbeekeeper suggests, it would be a brave keeper to be so sure as to leave 'supercedure' cells to develop without doing an AS.

Ray

 

[grizzly]

I am going to do an AS this friday, the queen is clipped and she is currently in the top brood box as i have a QE above and below her, she is there as i need stores moved up and for her to lay up drawn frames in that box.

So i am hoping timing is ok, when i inspected on saturday the cells were at the stage you see in the pic, if they have been sealed and it is a swarm, the queen cannot get far, which will hopefully give me the time to get up there friday and split.