Swarm control in the beehaus

[jimbeekeeper]

OK

Thinking ahead for next year, I am looking for all you experts on the beehaus / Dartington (and all of you that just know it all!) for proposals for an AS or similar in the beehaus.

My plan is as follows

Assuming only one half of the hive is occupied

1 Find the current queen, and store her safely
2 Rotate the hive 180 degrees
3 Place ne foundation in empty hive side
4 locate queen in new foundation side and await flying bees return
5 select 1 or 2 desired QC's removing others.


Whats others thoughts for hive managment of just 2 hives? (i.e one beehaus)

 

[m100]

OK

Thinking ahead for next year, I am looking for all you experts on the beehaus / Dartington (and all of you that just know it all!) for proposals for an AS or similar in the beehaus.

My plan is as follows

Assuming only one half of the hive is occupied

1 Find the current queen, and store her safely
2 Rotate the hive 180 degrees
3 Place ne foundation in empty hive side
4 locate queen in new foundation side and await flying bees return
5 select 1 or 2 desired QC's removing others.


Whats others thoughts for hive managment of just 2 hives? (i.e one beehaus)

Surely the Omlet helpline can answer all these questions, after all they know their product and they know their market

 

[Finman]

.
In Finland we had "turn around hives" 50 years ago. No on use them now.

Beehouse is too small to keep modern bee strains in the hive and they will swarm hugely.

2 colonies are out of question.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Surely the Omlet helpline can answer all these questions, after all they know their product and they know their market

You mean like all the other hive producers do? Don’t talk rubish

Beehouse is too small to keep modern bee strains in the hive and they will swarm hugely.

2 colonies are out of question.

So Finman are you saying that all hives on deep brood 11 frames are too small?

 

[oliver90owner]

James,

It's a Dartington.

Simply split the brood to the back half of the brood box with stores in between, queen in front (of a Q/E if necessary)with undrawn foundation and just a single (or couple) brood frame(s) and wait. Brood bees will go with the brood. Bees at back will build one or three Q cells (a long way from the queen). When they do, insert divider to completely separate into two parts, move queen cell(s) and brood nearer to rear entrance and open it. Job nearly done. Feed as necessary (but not usually needed with all those frames). Re-queen by uniting the colonies later when the new queen is proven. Or remove a queen cell to a nuc for increase. Or remove the back colony to another hive for further increase. Leaving them both laying for a while before uniting will produce a very large foraging force. Job done.

No need to rotate the hive - just rearrange/move add a few frames, one at a time. If they don't raise a queen cell at the back straight away, just move more eggs/brood back until they do, moving them further from the queen if necessary.

No emergency queen cells built as the back part of the colony is not queenless.

Really quite easy. No hassle of waiting for swarming to start with a vengeance. Little disturbance to the bees. Fairly reliable means of getting an increase, or more, at a steady rate.

Not sure if I missed anything. Don't think so, but the options are wide ranging.

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

So Finman are you saying that all hives on deep brood 11 frames are too small?

In Finland many professional beekeeper use only one langstroth brood box, but that is no a idea.

As an old fart you know the answer. You have brood space, - what ever it is- but is the beehouse handy to load 5 supers on?

That omlet beehouse seems a toy to me

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/06/omlet-beehaus-is-a-plastic-beehive-for-the-urban-conservationist/

 

[Haughton Honey]

James,

It's a Dartington.

Simply split the brood to the back half of the brood box with stores in between, queen in front (of a Q/E if necessary)with undrawn foundation and just a single (or couple) brood frame(s) and wait. Brood bees will go with the brood. Bees at back will build one or three Q cells (a long way from the queen). When they do, insert divider to completely separate into two parts, move queen cell(s) and brood nearer to rear entrance and open it. Job nearly done. Feed as necessary (but not usually needed with all those frames). Re-queen by uniting the colonies later when the new queen is proven. Or remove a queen cell to a nuc for increase. Or remove the back colony to another hive for further increase. Leaving them both laying for a while before uniting will produce a very large foraging force. Job done.

No need to rotate the hive - just rearrange/move add a few frames, one at a time. If they don't raise a queen cell at the back straight away, just move more eggs/brood back until they do, moving them further from the queen if necessary.

No emergency queen cells built as the back part of the colony is not queenless.

Really quite easy. No hassle of waiting for swarming to start with a vengeance. Little disturbance to the bees. Fairly reliable means of getting an increase, or more, at a steady rate.

Not sure if I missed anything. Don't think so, but the options are wide ranging.

Regards, RAB

This isn't too far off the Demaree method is it o90o??

 

[JCBrum]

Ha ha, 'old fart' ..... I love it, that'll have to go in the beekeepingforum lexicography along with 'vain space' . Superb technical term.

 

[Somerford]

swarm control

James,

It's a Dartington.

Simply split the brood to the back half of the brood box with stores in between, queen in front (of a Q/E if necessary)with undrawn foundation and just a single (or couple) brood frame(s) and wait. Brood bees will go with the brood. Bees at back will build one or three Q cells (a long way from the queen). When they do, insert divider to completely separate into two parts, move queen cell(s) and brood nearer to rear entrance and open it. Job nearly done. Feed as necessary (but not usually needed with all those frames). Re-queen by uniting the colonies later when the new queen is proven. Or remove a queen cell to a nuc for increase. Or remove the back colony to another hive for further increase. Leaving them both laying for a while before uniting will produce a very large foraging force. Job done.

No need to rotate the hive - just rearrange/move add a few frames, one at a time. If they don't raise a queen cell at the back straight away, just move more eggs/brood back until they do, moving them further from the queen if necessary.

No emergency queen cells built as the back part of the colony is not queenless.

Really quite easy. No hassle of waiting for swarming to start with a vengeance. Little disturbance to the bees. Fairly reliable means of getting an increase, or more, at a steady rate.

Not sure if I missed anything. Don't think so, but the options are wide ranging.

Regards, RAB

RAB has got it right - no need to rotate the hive.

I thought the BH came with instructions but it appears not to nor does it recommend robin dartington's manual either which is odd as it works with the BH.

Perhaps Mr D is bringing out a beekeeping manual for christmas for the BH ?!?!

if not Jim, I suggest the two of us compile a diary and then publish at the end of next year !!

perhaps call it 'The Perils of Modern Hive Management; or how to tear one's hair out'

LOL

S

 

[jimbeekeeper]

It's a Dartington.

Thanks very much Oliver, thats all I wanted.

Yes I know it is a dartington.

 

[m100]

You mean like all the other hive producers do? Don’t talk rubish

Other hive manufacturers don't need to, the guidance is contained in hundreds of standard textbooks and masses of accumulated knowledge of beekeepers worldwide that has been accumulated for well over a century. Despite being around for around 30 years The Dartington has, if I recall correctly a grand total of three books written about it and one of those contains just the plans.

Omlet have gone down the route where long established standard procedures go out of the window, hence a helpline or a textbook is needed if a typical 'beehive in every garden Beehaus owner' is to manage their hive properly, and even they they might struggle. Of course that won't stop a brood box that is stuffed with honey that they can't extract, with a roof that can't properly seal the brood area when you fit supers on one side, with colonies that swarm because they hate working horizontally, meaning colonies that have to be split to stop them swarming well before they would in a tall hive, that when split then become less productive etc, etc. Maybe 4 honey jars will be enough for a Beehaus with two colonies

What is even more puzzling is that some basic flaws long acknowledged by Robin Dartington in his hive design have been carried over unchanged to the Beehaus, the location of the entrances for instance makes frame manipulation something you have to do from the side.

 

[oliver90owner]

This isn't too far off the Demaree method is it o90o??

Not a clue. Just the simple, obvious way to do it. As detailed in Robin Dartington's manual. It works. It's easy, it's simple and it's effective. What more could one wish?

Thanks very much Oliver, thats all I wanted.

James, there are two ways of reading that.

1) 'Thanks, that is exactly the information I required'
or
2) In demented, hair-pulling mode meaning you didn't really want to hear that again! Grrr!

I'm not sure which way you meant it to be read (laughing, if it was the latter).

You have to understand, that over on the omlette forum, many really believed it was something entirely new and entirely different. The post that really tickled me was 'if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is a probably a duck'. Posting the confirmation that it was indeed a plastic Dartington killed the thread just about stone dead!!

Regards, RAB

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Thanks very much Oliver, thats all I wanted.

James, there are two ways of reading that.

1) 'Thanks, that is exactly the information I required'
or
2) In demented, hair-pulling mode meaning you didn't really want to hear that again! Grrr!

I'm not sure which way you meant it to be read (laughing, if it was the latter).

Can I pick option 3?

Only Joking! You information is exactly wat I required.

 

[JCBrum]

Quote m100 - What is even more puzzling is that some basic flaws long acknowledged by Robin Dartington in his hive design have been carried over unchanged to the Beehaus,

One doesn't forget that this is commerce, as much as it's beekeeping.

R & D is very expensive ........ 'bin there, done that, .... sometimes you simply have to launch the product ready or not, just to get some revenue, to be able to take things further.

JC.

 

[Finman]

.
In all hive types swarm coltrol is basicly the same. The Beehouse gives no advantage in that meaning.

In all cases we need
* a slow swarming/ non swarming bee stock
* enough space in build up
* yield flow and good weathers in swarming season so it pass by quickly

* extract when super is capped and new space for nectar

* false swarm procedure if queen cells appear

 

[jimbeekeeper]

My original question was aimed to help new beehaus owners (me included). The reply from Oliver was very helpful and I am sure Omlet users will appreciate this.

The fact is many people have either already bought these hives or are on order, or most likely will be Christmas presents etc.

So rather than "knock" people for pursuing this hobby (as it will be a hobby to them) advice is appreciated.

The vast majority of people will have done their research and see all the other hives out there, but they made their choice, so as a forum is it good to be the first to be able to offer this specific advice.

 

[Finman]

My original question was aimed to help new beehaus owners (me included). .

It is quite stupid to say that beehouse resolves the biggest problems in beekeeping like swarming. Or how much some get honey with that hive.

It is just a hive like others.

If the hive is planned so that it is turned in false swarm case, it is better to do so. It is good that beginner learn one method and not follow all 20 which he gets here in this forum.

What is good in the omlet house is that it is a warm hive.
Its leg are so thin that I do not believe that is stays upright when it has 100 kg honey load.

To me its seems very well-known because our turn-aroud-hive has same philosophy and the frame size seems the same kind 30 cm 30 cm.

It was intended to 2 colonies or to one bigg colonies.

.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

It is quite stupid to say that beehouse resolves the biggest problems in beekeeping like swarming. Or how much some get honey with that hive..

Finman, no one was is asking that or stating it. It is just you that keeps going on about it!

It is good that beginner learn one method and not follow all 20 which he gets here in this forum..

Hence my orginal question. And thanks to Oilver for giving one.

What is good in the omlet house is that it is a warm hive.

Glad you can spot somthing you like!

Its leg are so thin that I do not believe that is stays upright when it has 100 kg honey load.

Wrong, and wrong on so many levels! It has been tested to more than 100Kg. Next question!

 

[Finman]

.
OK, it is perfect hive. No problems.

The rest depends on the beekeeper.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

.
OK, it is perfect hive. No problems.

The rest depends on the beekeeper.

How very true, and also applies to every other hive type or design.