The main brood chamber is in the feeder box

[jenkinsbrynmair]

works as a hive bee for around 20 days

and do you think it never needs a toilet break in all that time? bees can fly quite soon after emergence, in 'normal' situations, granted, the ydon't go out foraging for quite a while, but that doesn't mean they don't go out flying, swarms actually contain bees of all ages, including nurse bees and young bees nowhere near foraging age.

 

[admanga]

OK. Thanks. I have revised my understanding of the life of bees [beekeeper since 3 weeks only but studying as much as I can].

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

OK. Thanks. I have revised my understanding of the life of bees [beekeeper since 3 weeks only but studying as much as I can].

no worries, a lot of the time the books don't really explain things well (or even correctly) and there's a lot to learn, and always will be. At least here you get a chance to see the myths being dispelled and have a chance to have things explained.

 

[Erichalfbee]

myths being dispelled

Like laying workers not being able to fly.

 

[admanga]

Update. I left the bees undisturbed for three weeks, now they are at day 35 since inhabiting the Dadant "feeding chamber". Today, I checked the frames in the brood box, and they have only drawn about one side of a frame. No eggs visible in here (but remember there were eggs and larvae in the new comb in the feedbox three weeks ago).

In the meantime, I've discovered Warre hives through this forum and read both Warre's book and articles by David Heaf (https://warre.biobees.com/index.html).

I also followed videos by Christophe Koppel in French (L'apiculture en warré par Christophe Köppel:
).

This seems an ideal hive to start a small hive, and I like a lot the idea of the hive being designed for the bees. And I found a second hand Warre in need of some TLC. Now cleaned a little and re-oiled with linseed oil a week ago, its ready for its new bees. Moving the bees to this hive frees up the Dadant, to be repurposed as a swarm trap.

I built a board matching Dadant to Warre out of old pallet wood. Placed the (new) Warre hive behind and to one side of the (old) Dadant, placed the matching board and a queen excluder on top. Moved the feeding chamber containing the brood and queen and its inner cover and roof over to the Warre without opening this brood chamber. Placed a board in front of the new hive to act as a ramp for the bees remaining in the brood box. Shook frame by frame onto the board and tipped the brood box onto its side, touching the ramp. Used some smoke and brushing to encourage bees to leave the old box. One or two found their way to the new hive and signalled to the others, which started a march towards it, while returning foragers circled in confusion.

Will let them alone for a week and then take out the queen excluder, and probably add a second Warre box below in a couple of weeks, as two Warre boxes are needed to be equivalent to a single chamber of other hive types.

Photos of the last step clearing bees from Dadant main box to Warre. Isn't a Warre tiny!

 

[admanga]

This hive now has its inhabited feeder box at the top (completely full with a mix of brood comb and honey reserves), warre brood chamber with 5 of 8 comb drawn from top bars, and a second warre box below in case they need more space. They seem to be doing well on their own (obviously I can't feed them via the feeder box or above it). I accept to let them manage things on their own and move down into the warre in their own time, however long it takes them.

In retrospect, it would have been better to cut out the comb from the brood box and suspend it in frames as soon as the problem was discovered. At that time, I did not have sufficient kit or knowledge to manage that.

@Erichalfbee, Dani, thank you! Your advice was good. I should have listened!

 

[Erichalfbee]

This hive now has its inhabited feeder box at the top (completely full with a mix of brood comb and honey reserves), warre brood chamber with 5 of 8 comb drawn from top bars, and a second warre box below in case they need more space. They seem to be doing well on their own (obviously I can't feed them via the feeder box or above it). I accept to let them manage things on their own and move down into the warre in their own time, however long it takes them.

In retrospect, it would have been better to cut out the comb from the brood box and suspend it in frames as soon as the problem was discovered. At that time, I did not have sufficient kit or knowledge to manage that.

@Erichalfbee, Dani, thank you! Your advice was good. I should have listened!

Never mind. You still have them.
Bees seem to survive e quite happily despite what we do.

 

[admanga]

I got round to following the advice from this thread albeit many months late!

The bees had built 5 comb in the Warre box but the brood chamber remained in the Dadant feeder box above, and honey stores were placed also there. The hive bees in the Warre parts seemed to be unemployed with no nectar coming in and queen remaining above. This weekend, I took the risk of moving the Warre to the top, putting an eek with supplementary entrance hole between Warre and the Dadant part at the bottom. I cut through the porter bee escape to allow free movement between the two parts. I will feed them regularly, finally possible with a feeder tray at the top of the Warre. I hope to stimulate some more comb building as well as building up stores for the winter. There is plenty of ivy nearby, so I expect September to be a better month than August. I aim to removed the Dadant part before November. The windows on the Warre boxes makes watching the bees progress a pleasure.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Turn the feeder upside down. Put a shim on top with a notch cut out for an entrance. Put the brood box on top

Admanga, you are making a mountain out of mole-hill!

The feeder has virtually nothing in it, so discard it. Forget smoke, forget trying to find the queen, forget breaking up the comb.

Set the crownboard as you new floor, comb uppermost; seal the hole in the bee escape. Put an eke onto the crownboard, deep enough to cover the comb +10mm; put the brood box on top of the eke, and then a new crownboard and roof.

suggestion is difficult as I have very little spare equipment, such as an eek or super that I can cut to make a new entrance

Ane eke is four pieces of any old timber; make it about 10mm deeper than the depth of comb on the crownboard. Fix the four pieces together with screws or brackets or tape & hope, and cut a notch or drill a hole into one side.

If you have no timber, look in a skip; if you have no skip nearby, search the streets and use what others discard.

 

[admanga]

There appears to be more comb (and bees) in the feeder than in the Warre. Lets check that with numbers: feeder external dimensions 10 x 500 x 430 = 21L. Supposed to be good for 14 L of liquid. A warre box is 18 L, which they have partially filled about 5/8 of incomplete comb = 11L. Therefore, there is potentially more of the hive in the feedbox than in the Warre box.

The job is mostly done now. I could speed up migration upwards with smoke and drumming on the lower box, but I see no reason to hurry. I've achieved what I needed to do to help them through August - I can feed them now.

 

[admanga]

I finally completed the tranfer and the dadant parts have been removed. Brood comb was suspended in four frames using string and drawing pins to fix string to frame tops. That worked really well. The honeycomb was put in and eke above a crown board and a queen excluder. There were a lot more bees hidden in that feeder box than I had ever guessed from entrance traffic. But the queen had not been laying much during the dearth of August, just a few spotty patches of capped brood. I think she was honey bound in the feeder box and did not venture into the Warre part. I can now plan overwintering in a Warre stack of two possibly three boxes. Thanks all for the advise you gave!