Swarm collected now problems

[Cube3]

Hello everyone,
So here goes for my first post. I have never kept Bees before and have landed myself in at the deep end. I have a 5 frame nuc due to be delivered in June and that was the plan, to start Bee keeping after reading, watching, trawling forums and working with the local keeper a couple of miles away. Well this has slightly gone off schedule as the local farmer called me and asked if I would collect up a swarm for him as he knew I was starting out. My local BK was away on holiday and after much deliberation I suited up and collected the swarm. They were on a fence post and panel. I got most of them in a cardboard box, shook the rest from the post and closed the box, not shut though. Retreated and watched, the flying Bees calmed down and mostly went in the box. I thought excellent queen must be in there. Note, throughout all this I have never spotted the queen. This all happened last Wednesday evening. Came home, installed Bees in brand new hive, placed 2 pints of sugar syrup above queen excluder and crown board. Left them alone and have seen very little activity all week, it's been wet, rainy and down to 7deg, until today, lots of Bees flying in front of hive in the sun then mid day they swarmed landing not 6ft away on bramble branch. I opened up the hive, maybe a 1/4 of the syrup gone but absolutely no other activity, no drawn comb, nothing. I have collected the ball of Bees back up again and put them back in.......first things first.....sorry.... I know I should have left them alone or let someone else get involved...
My thoughts are that they are queenless, but that is based on nothing more than a hunch..... What should I do next?
Regards
Simon

 

[VEG]

first well done for having a go. They may have a virgin queen in there so dont expect to see eggs for a while. Take the queen excluder out its not needed until you have supers on. Also they may not have found the syrup so dribble a little onto the top of the bars just below the feed hole. Oh get them back in the box.

 

[Ely]

I think that sometimes happens. For some reason a swarm decides to leave where you put them. Some people advise to put an excluder under the brood box to prevent the queenfrom leaving, and the rest of the bees stay with the queen. I'm not sure how long it should be kept there mind, another beekeeper can tell you. Perhaps until they draw frames?

 

[Davelin]

Put a queen excluder under the brood box to prevent queen from escaping if they have one. Wouldn't have thought they would swarm without queen.

 

[VEG]

no good putting a queen excluder under the box if there is a virgin queen in there trying to go out on a mating flight.

 

[protheroe]

can you get a frame of young uncapped brood off anyone,that will keep them in the hive and if the queen has been lost they can make a new one.
I have heard of placing a queen excluder between the floor and brood box but have never tried it myself

 

[Ely]

no good putting a queen excluder under the box if there is a virgin queen in there trying to go out on a mating flight.

I thought a swarm consisted of the old mated queen and bees while the virgin is left with the original colony? Am I wrong?

 

[Swarm]

Did you leave the swarm box in place until the bees stopped flying? Were there bees fanning the entrance of this box?

As for absconding, that sometimes happens.

I hope they stay put for you. Nothing better than something for nothing

 

[VEG]

I thought a swarm consisted of the old mated queen and bees while the virgin is left with the original colony? Am I wrong?

Not wrong but in this instance we dont know if it is a prime swarm containing the original mated queen or a caste swarm with a virgin.

If it was definitely a prime swarm then use the queen excluder.

 

[Ely]

Ah I see. Could she not be trapped in for a few days until they draw frames and then let out when the weather might be better anyway? Or would she be killed because the bees sense a problem and assume an unhealthy queen?

 

[VEG]

problem with trapping in a virgin is you can bet that if there was fine weather you would be stuck in work or doing something else sods law lol. If it is a virgin you could put in a frame of open brood to try to stop the bees absconding.

 

[Cube3]

Thank you for your advice. Can I ask a hypothetical question. If I have failed to collect the queen from the original swarm location, 1 would the behaviour I have seen fit? 2 If I obtained a frame of open brood, how quickly could I tell it had worked? 3 Is purchasing a queen a viable option?
Regards Simon

 

[Swarm]

Unless you can put one (frame of brood)in now they could be gone in the morning. Wait and see what happens.

 

[oliver90owner]

1), 3). Yes, but not necessarily for 1). 2) Within a day or two.

There might even be two queens in there, although doubtful.

 

[drex]

1.They are unlikely to leave the hive en masse without some form of queen.
2. You either just have to be patient or put in a test frame to ascertain whether you have a queen. A test frame is a frame containing eggs and young larvae. If you do not have a queen they will make queen cells within a few days, but will not if you have a queen ( in general). A frame of young brood is also good to "hold " the bees to a hive.
3. If you do not have a queen, yes this is a viable option, but there are cheaper ways and do not know how many mated queens are out there for sale yet.

 

[everecar]

She is very unlikely to be killed off as there are no queen cells or even eggs so she is the colony's only hope. If it was a large swarm it is likely to be a prime swarm so there is no issue with trapping her in.

Protheroe's suggestion of a frame of brood is by far the best. I am a bit far away to help.

Check the weather forecast - if it does not look good she won't go out mating anyway! At least if you trap her in for a few days, if - worst case - she is a virgin and does not get mated, you will have a colony so then only need to find someone with a frame of eggs & bump her off, just a thought, useless if you can't get a frame of eggs though.

 

[REDWOOD]

I thought a swarm consisted of the old mated queen and bees while the virgin is left with the original colony? Am I wrong?

cast or secondary swarms are virgin queens

 

[Eyeman]

I alway make sure the hive has a solid floor or close the OMF. Swarms seem to prefer the dark- best way of trying to keep them.
Alec

 

[oliver90owner]

She is very unlikely to be killed off as there are no queen cells or even eggs so she is the colony's only hope.

Not an issue in this particular case, but tell that to all those that have lost queens on introduction to a queenless colony. The reason she will not be 'outed' is simply because she has already been accepted as queen.

 

[nonstandard]

I agree, I hived a swarm in an OMF only to see them B' off almost immediately; caught and re-hived on a solid floor they stayed.

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