Swarm cells

[UK Fisher]

Hi,

Well i thought it would be too late in the year for my bees to swarm, but alas today during inspection i found 1 colony with 7 (yes i did say 7) queen cells, all at the bottom of 3 frames, all were inhabited with 4 of them almost ready to be capped........ well i was a little shocked at this being as where we are in the year, but stopped myself from removing them while i had a think.....

I went to the 2nd colony and found 6 queen cups but all were empty,,, i removed these and then went for a cuppa, to dwell on the 1st colony.....

it went something like this,,,,

its too late in the year to AS them,,,,shall i just tear them down and keep an eye on them,,,,cant do that because the cells are so far advanced they will probably swarm anyway....back to AS,,,,could do this and then ill have to unite later,,,,will the new queen have time to mate and get laying....doubt it...if i dont do anything they will swarm,,,must be something i can do,,,,,etc etc

Well in the end i opted for AS with a view to unite back to first colony later...
This is my first ever AS,,,so please tell me if i did it wrong....located queen on frame of brood ,,,took other brood frames to spare hive inc frames of stores,,,left original hive with original queen and 1 frame of brood and 1 frame of stores......new hive has 9 frames from original,,with 6 frames of brood and 3 frames of food,,,,removed all but one of the Queen cells...i left the most advanced one alone....

Now i am ready for the onslaught i am sure i am going to receive,,,but please bear in mind i have only had bees for a very short time (3mths) and i am trying to do my best...

Thanks.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You didn't need to move nine frames. You slide the hive over, put the new one in its place and put the queen,her frame and a frame of stores into the middle.
A shake of bees from another frame is good too.
Was the QC you left open? Best that it was so you can see it's got a larva in it.
Mark the frame with a drawing pin.
Go back in 6 days to knock down any more made.
I did an AS into a nuc 9 days ago but as this particular queen is too swarmy I am re- queening the nuc then uniting.

 

[Juststarting]

I had a similar situation at the weekend - 1 colony was on the verge of getting too big for single brood box (from nuc earlier in the year) but i had hoped would be okay as expecting the queen to start reducing in laying soon.

Anyway opened at weekend and lots of larva in QC's. I did a demarree instead of AS which if I've done it right will keep the colony together.

Queen thinks shes swarmed and should be happy in new BB with couple of frames of emerging brood and foundation. Rest of brood is in a second BB which is separated from first bb by a QE 2 supers then another QE. Nurse bees gradually move down to lower bb and queen as original brood in top box emerges.

Just need to remove Qc from top box at 7-10 days and then rearrange when brood has emerged.

Well thats the theory anyway!

 

[oliver90owner]

You done fine. Perhaps not the most efficient way to go about it but that will come with practise.

The other thing you need to contemplate is why they are making swarming preparations at this time of the year. There will be a reason, even if not easily apparent to the beekeeper.

Regards, RAB

 

[UK Fisher]

Thanks for the replies....i must admit a read about the demaree method, but wasnt sure enough to try it....

Not the most effecient way i agree Rab....should have just moved the queen and 2 frames and not the 9 frames,,,,but live and learn....

Regarding the reason for swarming,,,,could it be because i have over fed them,,,i was advised to feed them until they had drawn all the frames out, (was a new nuc) and i must admit they have been taking the food quicker than i thought the would,,,(1 1/2 rapid feeders full per week.)

I kept an eye out for too much food in the brood box...but they seemed to fill frames on the edge of nest with stores and didnt ever get round to drawing out the last couple of frames on the outside of these stores.

I added a super to each colony and this one hardly used it,,(only drawn 3 frames) where-as the other colony has drawn 7 1/2 frames and filled 4 1/2 of them (uncapped)...

Could the swarming instinct have been caused because of the smaller broodnest surrounded by stores even though they had undrawn frames on the outside of these stores?

If but if but lol...thats why they are so fascinating

And yes there was a larva in the ready to be capped queencell

Thanks

 

[UK Fisher]

Could you please shed some light on whether you think the new queen if/when she emerges will have time to mate and start to lay this year....or is she really up against a hopeless task?
Thanks

 

[drstitson]

did you house the nuc in a brood box with the full complement of frames made up with foundation there and the?

if so then should have just sandwiched the nuc frames between 2 of foundation and with a dummy board at end, fed a bit (if necessary) and then at next inspection added 1-2 new frames of foundation at edge of brood nest (or 1 in middle as per Polyhive) and so on in a step wise fashion. oh and also bruised stores on and turned outer half frames of brood.

i sounds to me like they'd built themselves a honey shell!

 

[UK Fisher]

I housed the new nuc with all the frames of foundation,,,,,and i have since read to do what you suggested....but if i had done that, wouldnt they have still placed there stores on the outer edge frames and ended up in a honey shell?

 

[drstitson]

no - because if you'd read your polyhive you'd have been putting the new foundation inside the brood nest and bruisning/turning outer frames.

 

[JohnRoss]

I have my only two colonies waiting to get queens mated at the moment. I am on tender hooks about it. At least you still have the origonal queen so if the new one does not get mated you can re-unite.

 

[drstitson]

i think it is probably pushing it a bit to expect a new queen emerging in mid august to manage to get mated and laying adequately to support a full colony ready for winter.

may need to take stock once she starts laying and even up the 2 hives, perhaps to end up with a strong nuc and a strong single hive. OR at worst, unite the two.

actually since you had two colonies to start with you do have the means at your disposal to juggle bees and frames to produce 3 adequate colonies for winter should you so desire.

 

[UK Fisher]

Hvae the means at my disposal???

I have the will and the enthusiasm, but what means do i need,,,,my 2nd colony is doing well so could always juggle a few of their frames around,,,i have a spare hive and frames etc...and a couple of poly nucs empty,,,,,just dont want to juggle them all and lose all 3...

Could you give me a little more detail please?

As i said i am a beginner and i do appreciate your help.

Thanks

 

[Busybee123]

Hi UK Fisher,

You sound as if you are on top of it all and doing really well!. I have been keeping bees about the same length of time as you and have had all sorts of dramas, but it's all a learning experience

If your virgin queen does not mate sucessfully or turns out to be a drone layer you should still have time to requeen, or as others have said unite.

One of my colonies if producing queen cells and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's supercedure, but you never can be sure what the bees will do. Problem is that they haven't read the books!

As far as "the means at your disposal" is concerned - I think they mean that because you have more than one colony you can juggle frames and bees around so that all your colonies are about the same strength before winter (but of course there are small risks involved with this as there are with any manipulation)

Good luck

BTW I like your avatar

 

[hellnwheels]

If it's any consolation, I had a colony (my first!) swarm mid-Sept a few years ago while we were away on holiday! I thought it was a gonna, but the queen mated and produced enough brood to get through the winter and did well the following year. So you never know...

 

[Busybee123]

If it's any consolation, I had a colony (my first!) swarm mid-Sept a few years ago while we were away on holiday! I thought it was a gonna, but the queen mated and produced enough brood to get through the winter and did well the following year. So you never know...

Hi hellnwheels, now that's what I call a late swarm!

Some people in my local association had bees swarm in September last year. I think the weather is maybe a bigger factor in bees behaviour than most of us realise. Certainly the weather here was dreadful during the normal swarming season (May/June) so maybe the bees are making up for it now.