Supersedure & Swarm cells at the same time

[srm99c]

Hi all

Yesterday I noticed what looked like a supersedure cell. It was about 1.5 inches long unsealed and in the middle of the frame. At the same time I also noticed a sealed swarm cell hanging vertically off the bottom of a frame.

I have yet to spot my queen so i don't know if she is there or not, I did see some evidence of eggs but not many and the light wasn't great so i can't be 100% sure. I also saw some uncapped brood and some capped.

I'm currently thinking of leaving it for a few weeks to see what happens since if it is supersedure i don't want to interfere with the mating flight.

Any advice would be welcome since having both types of cell at the same time is confusing me.

 

[Arfermo]

Sealed QC indicatesa Q has probably absconded already. Best just to wait and see. Watch for mating flight if poss and then give time for new Q to start laying and then clip and mark Q before she buzzes off too.

 

[drstitson]

how old is HM?

probably supercedure if only 2 cells.

you can inspect carefully so long as you avoid mating flight time.

nice to hear piping during inspections.

 

[itma]

…
Any advice would be welcome since having both types of cell at the same time is confusing me.

Queen Cells are Queen Cells, it isn't a case of different types of cells, so much as different reasons for making them.

They won't have the two reasons at the same time - its up to the beekeeper to make the call as to whether it is necessary to preempt a swarm.
Performing an Artificial Swarm is the safe option - ensuring that you don't risk losing a large part of the workforce. However, it diverts the workforce from concentrating on foraging.
If you are confident that what you see indicates supercedure, you needn't do an AS. But there's no mega problem if you do an AS that isn't strictly necessary - you can call it "queen rearing" or "making increase". The worst is that you may miss out on a bit of honey (or a fair bit of honey this year if you decide to keep the division into two colonies).
Looking at the colony, asking yourself if they are congested with bees, short of comb for Q to lay in, came from a swarm, etc then you might have some idea as to whether a swarm would be on the cards …
On the other hand, if there is a sealed QC (and only one other) and they haven't swarmed already, supercedure sounds very likely to me.

My suggestion would be to avoid shaking/bumping the frames with known QCs (mark them - drawing pins are conventional), but to shake every other frame clear of bees so you can make absolutely certain there are no other QCs that you have missed (since you missed these two last week!) Any other QCs should be broken down.

If in doubt, an AS is the safe way to handle the situation.
But, without seeing the situation properly, my reading of your report sounds like that is unlikely to be required.

If you decide to let the supercedure run, then you should leave them undisturbed for 3 weeks after emergence is due (mating time!) So, before then, you need to ensure they have enough stores, space, etc for the duration.

 

[BeeJayBee]

If you could see eggs then it's more likely the queen is still there, so it's more than likely to be supersedure but you'll only know for sure when the new queen(s) have emerged.

 

[itma]

I believe Harry Callahan (played by Clint Eastwood) summed up the dilemma with the (often misquoted) line

‘You've got to ask yourself one question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?’

 

[Walrus]

I had this last year on a colony and I left them to it.

They swarmed!

It was in May I think.

 

[Skyhook]

Queen Cells are Queen Cells, it isn't a case of different types of cells, so much as different reasons for making them.

They won't have the two reasons at the same time - its up to the beekeeper to make the call as to whether it is necessary to preempt a swarm.
Performing an Artificial Swarm is the safe option - ensuring that you don't risk losing a large part of the workforce. However, it diverts the workforce from concentrating on foraging.
If you are confident that what you see indicates supercedure, you needn't do an AS. But there's no mega problem if you do an AS that isn't strictly necessary - you can call it "queen rearing" or "making increase". The worst is that you may miss out on a bit of honey (or a fair bit of honey this year if you decide to keep the division into two colonies).
Looking at the colony, asking yourself if they are congested with bees, short of comb for Q to lay in, came from a swarm, etc then you might have some idea as to whether a swarm would be on the cards …
On the other hand, if there is a sealed QC (and only one other) and they haven't swarmed already, supercedure sounds very likely to me.

My suggestion would be to avoid shaking/bumping the frames with known QCs (mark them - drawing pins are conventional), but to shake every other frame clear of bees so you can make absolutely certain there are no other QCs that you have missed (since you missed these two last week!) Any other QCs should be broken down.

If in doubt, an AS is the safe way to handle the situation.
But, without seeing the situation properly, my reading of your report sounds like that is unlikely to be required.

If you decide to let the supercedure run, then you should leave them undisturbed for 3 weeks after emergence is due (mating time!) So, before then, you need to ensure they have enough stores, space, etc for the duration.

 

[srm99c]

Thanks everyone, sorry for the late reply i was expecting to get email alerts when someone responded but it seems it doesn't work that way. Anyway i've decided to leave them to it and see what happens, i'm going to leave them alone for a few weeks to not disturb the mating flights and focus on my other hives.