Supersedure? (inc. photo)

[clv101]

June 2012 we received a swarm from our local association. Colony did well for the rest of the summer and overwintered well. In May a lot of swarm cells were produced (around a dozen, mostly at the bottom of the frames). On 13th May we moved the queen on a frame of BIAS and two frames of stores into a nuc as per the nucleus swarm control method. A month on this queen now has five frames of brood including the fantastic photo below and has been moved into a full hive.

On today's inspection three queen cells were found, two together at the top of one frame and the towards the top/middle on the other side. They are pretty long with a young lava in each.

This sounds like supersedure cells rather than swarm cells doesn't it? As the queen arrived in a prime (she was laying pretty much from day one) swarm she could well be a 2011 queen. It seems a shame to lose her when she's doing so well though:

Should I just leave these three cells or cull down to one?

 

[oliver90owner]

Which three cells?

 

[drstitson]

o2o i think the pic is to illustrate brood pattern not QCs. i did search too.

 

[oliver90owner]

Have you the same thought as me?

 

[Black Comb]

I've been caught out with this in the past.
At this time of year they are probably swarm cells.
(Can't see them on the picture)

 

[clv101]

Sorry, I should have been clearer - the cells aren't in the picture, it's just illustrative of how well this queen is laying and why I don't want to lose her!

If they are swarm cells, guess I could split this hive again...

 

[lebouche]

Wow,
She avoided laying where the wires are!
Didn't know they did that.
Maybe they would prefer a different metal?

 

[Chris58]

Have you got a smaller hive that needs increasing rapidly? never seen a laying pattern like that!

 

[Finman]

.

This sounds like supersedure cells rather than swarm cells doesn't it? ?

No. It may be swarming too.
When they cap the queen cells, you perhaps loose half of bees and that queen. - do something to stop that.

It seems that brood space has been very tight, because they have used every cell from corner to corner. Too tight.


What a laying!

And healthy brood!

2011 queen is quite old and bees do what they must.

I do not trust supeceding this time of year.

You may take now daughters from that hive if it ois good.

Those bigger ball like pupae are drones.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

.
2011 queen is quite old .

I have one 2010 queen and still going like a train

 

[Flatters]

Where did you get the foundation from? I have not seen any of my bees avoiding the metal before,

Mind you I have not seen brood pattern like that either. I normally see some stores as well, which I think helps to insulate the brood against quick temperature changes.

 

[clv101]

You may take now daughters from that hive if it ois good.

Two of her daughters have just started laying this week.

 

[itma]

... On 13th May we moved the queen on a frame of BIAS and two frames of stores into a nuc as per the nucleus swarm control method. A month on this queen now has five frames of brood including the fantastic photo below and has been moved into a full hive.

On today's inspection three queen cells were found ...

I'm wondering how much of the new BB has been drawn out?

It could be that she is simply running out of laying space, and the response to that would be swarming.
If that is the case, you could try knocking down the QCs and throwing LOTS of drawn comb at them. And then moving whatever stores frames to the outside, so that drawn comb is next to the brood nest.
But if they are then still thinking of swarming, they'll put up more QCs and you'd need to inspect in less than a week to hold them. Being prepared for an AS at the weekend would be prudent.

Unless the hive were much more crowded than the photo indicates, I wouldn't expect that a Q laying like that was due for supercedure.
But I would expect that a Q laying like that could easily get short of drawn comb for laying ... especially during nuc expansion.

 

[clv101]

Where did you get the foundation from? I have not seen any of my bees avoiding the metal before,

Mind you I have not seen brood pattern like that either. I normally see some stores as well, which I think helps to insulate the brood against quick temperature changes.

It's Thornes Premium. The other frames all had more stores, the bees clustered in the corners of this frame are all on the stores after a puff of smoke.

 

[Finman]

It could be that she is simply running out of laying space, and the response to that would be swarming. .

I have the same opinion.

 

[BILL.HEARD]

Not laying in cells where the wire goes through is quite common.

 

[richardbees]

civ
Thanks for the excellent photo...one hell of an advertisement for Thrones 'Premium'
,,,,glad I read a few replies before starting a search!

ditto above, she definitely needs more laying room

 

[Luminos]

It's Thornes Premium. The other frames all had more stores, the bees clustered in the corners of this frame are all on the stores after a puff of smoke.

Mine do exactly the same - foundation bought from the same place

 

[clv101]

Not laying in cells where the wire goes through is quite common.

Is it that the queen doesn't lay in the cell with the wire, or is it that the brood were removed by the workers - perhaps thinking there was something wrong with the larva?

 

[VEG]

The queen doesnt lay in the cell if the wire can be felt (by her) in mine anyway.