Supers/Heatloss

[Finman]

you were doing the modelling using crude methods... another Finman logical fallacy attributing the opponent with your own behaviour then saying its invalid.

now guy, time to change your doctor.

oh my goodnes. i was not modelling anything. It was ball volume formula.

I only told, that if hive is warm, it can keep bigger brood area than colder hive. That was my simple idea.
it is not ment any model.

Derekm, do you really think that I have wasted my 50 years in beekeeping in cold climate and my 6 years in university without learning anything?
Helsinki university must have very low level if it is not enough to British 2-hive owners.

I need no modelling, how to add super. I have learned with trial and error how to take care on hives build up.

What I take care in hive heat issues are

- proctected, non windy hive site, sunny.
- insulated brood boxes (poly)
- solid floor
- entrance size and upper entrance control
- first enlargenins / more space under brood box.
- electrict heating in spring 7-15W
- big colonies, 3 brood boxes
- queens good layers

here you have modelling if you need

if you get with your system 120 kg honey per hive, call me.

.

.

 

[user 6228]

now guy, time to change your doctor.

oh my goodnes. i was not modelling anything. It was ball volume formula.

I only told, that if hive is warm, it can keep bigger brood area than colder hive. That was my simple idea.
it is not ment any model.

Derekm, do you really think that I have wasted my 50 years in beekeeping in cold climate and my 6 years in university without learning anything?
Helsinki university must have very low level if it is not enough to British 2-hive owners.

I need no modelling, how to add super. I have learned with trial and error how to take care on hives build up.

What I take care in hive heat issues are

- proctected, non windy hive site, sunny.
- insulated brood boxes (poly)
- solid floor
- entrance size and upper entrance control
- first enlargenins / more space under brood box.
- electrict heating in spring 7-15W
- big colonies, 3 brood boxes
- queens good layers

here you have modelling if you need

if you get with your system 120 kg honey per hive, call me.

.

.

ball volume is a mathematical model of heat generating capacity and dissapation... same old rhetoric same old lack of logic, same old fallacies.

the the universty education but no detail
the years and years of experience
the weight of honey

please come up with something new

 

[Finman]

ball volume is a mathematical model of heat generating capacity and dissapation... same old rhetoric same old lack of logic, same old fallacies.

the the universty education but no detail
the years and years of experience
the weight of honey

please come up with something new

carry on...! It will be good.
.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hmm another Finman led thread.
And what's been going on for the last three pages?
Obviously what six years in Helsinki Univeristy qualifies you to do.

Talking balls!

 

[Finman]

Hmm another Finman led thread.
And what's been going on for the last three pages?
Obviously what six years in Helsinki Univeristy qualifies you to do.

Talkning balls!

Jep. I have balls to do that.

.I learned English , language from university books. That is main issue.

Idiots are same kind in all around the world. It is not language issue.
But 50 million people have idiots as much as 5 million has inhabitants.

.

.

 

[John M]

Still off topic; I will let the topic go back to the original poster's intent but ... the square/cube model, whilst being crude does apply to any scaled shape and not just spheres (not balls, but I am still smiling at the comment).

In terms of my understanding, I am an engineer, now teacher, with 8 or 9 years of higher education and over 2 years of modelling heat loss in different environments for a variety of things including fast jets, although not smaller winged objects.

I would love a research project on modelling heat loss and efficiency of hive types and cluster size, position, shape, ambient temperature, weather conditions... Or perhaps there are a few too many variables for a simple model to be useful. One thing does remain, bigger is better for energy efficiency as each bee can 'produce' a finite amount of energy.

As for supering, I will try to add a useful comment to that in a few dozen years when my slow mind has got round this beekeeping thing a bit more

 

[Finman]

S
As for supering, :

supering is part of bild up of colony. On the first half of summer colony is growing and it reaches its final foraging power some day. It depends on start and what ever.

If weathers are cool, under 20C day temp, one must be carefull when he adds more space for growing colony.


Beekeeping is not so difficult as it seems in that chain. If youhave notgoals, what you want, you have no problems to solve out.
If you just solve things without proplems, it tells that you have no goals either. You just keep bees and love them more than anyone else. Beatles: all bees needs love, lallalalalalaa.

.

 

[Ely]

I have to say. Still find swarming really difficult to control. I did artificial swarms on each colony but they continued to swarm. Now i have no foraging power

 

[Finman]

II did artificial swarms on each colony but they continued to swarm.

did you give foundations to be build? Or enoiugh space?

Some bee strains ar so eager to swarm that nothing helps.
Get better bee strain. I tired to Carniolans for that reason.

 

[Ely]

I did try those things but I think it is down to just putting up with what I have and not buying any queens. I didn't buy queens this year because I'm off to uni soon

 

[user 6228]

S the square/cube model, whilst being crude does apply to any scaled shape and not just spheres (not balls, but I am still smiling at the comment).

Yes, it does, some of the detail differences between that model and the reality can be quite surprising.

I would love a research project on modelling heat loss and efficiency of hive types and cluster size, position, shape, ambient temperature, weather conditions... Or perhaps there are a few too many variables for a simple model to be useful. One thing does remain, bigger is better for energy efficiency as each bee can 'produce' a finite amount of energy.

I am doing experimental research on thermal conductance of tree nests and hive types. I have limited it to the empty box/tree cavity as it gets complex
quickly and after all thats what the bees start with and any changes thy make ... takes energy.. If you want discuss this some more PM me.


Derek

 

[Little John]

I have to say. Still find swarming really difficult to control. I did artificial swarms on each colony but they continued to swarm. Now i have no foraging power

It seems to me that the underlying premise behind Artificial Swarming is flawed, for the bees clearly do not experience some vital component of the natural swarming process.
In an A/S the older foragers will continue to 'return from whence they came', but following a genuine swarm they will not return. Now that's quite a difference.

I have no idea what it is that causes the bees to have their hive auto-locator re-set, but it might be something quite simple, such as stocking-up with honey before 'the off' - for that is another difference between Artificial and Genuine Swarming.

One technique you may wish to consider, which was in vogue in the late 19th century but which seems to have been forgotten, is that of Swarm Arresting and Automatic Re-Hiving.
This is my descriptive title for the technique, for when scouring the Patents archive, it seems that no-one could agree on what to call this procedure: some called it 'Swarm Prevention' (when it isn't really, for they DO swarm); 'Device for Preventing the Swarming of Bees' (same comment); 'Non-swarming Beehive' (same comment); some called it a 'Swarmer and Re-hiver'; 'Bee Swarmer'; 'Swarm Catcher'; 'Self-Hiver'; 'Beehive Automatic Swarm Control' and so on ...

They all basically work on the same principle - the hive is allowed to swarm, with the issuing swarm being simply piped into a waiting receptacle, usually an empty hive. So the bees have swarmed (so they're happy), and the beekeeper hasn't lost his bees (so he's happy).

What's not to like ?

LJ

 

[Ely]

Sounds interesting. Doesnt this receptor block normal foraging activity? I can't picture how it works

 

[Swarm]

Sounds like the German skep keeping videos but they sat around waiting for the signs before attaching the swarm trap.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Sounds interesting. Doesnt this receptor block normal foraging activity? I can't picture how it works

Big T sell an expensive swarm trap that goes across the entrance. They say it will trap the queen, the swarming bees are meant to stay nearby. There's a 'how to use' pdf - search for "Swarm Trap instructions" along with the vendor's name. There's been discussion about it on the sbai site.

 

[Ely]

Thanks I'll have a read. I think I still need to master the more common artificial swarm method

 

[user 6228]

Thats go me thinking about something thats like doing a Taranov but inside a flyscreen gazebo... and if the queen flies you still have her.,
we just happen to have ...

 

[Little John]

Sounds interesting. Doesnt this receptor block normal foraging activity? I can't picture how it works

No - that's the whole point - everything works almost as normal until there's a swarm. I'll start a separate thread on this, this afternoon, with a few examples. Right this minute I'm halfway out of the door on my way to a boot sale.

LJ

 

[Little John]

No - that's the whole point - everything works almost as normal until there's a swarm. I'll start a separate thread on this, this afternoon, with a few examples. Right this minute I'm halfway out of the door on my way to a boot sale.

LJ

'Tis over at the DIY Hive Construction page.