Supercedure?

[JonnyPicklechin]

Strong 2 xBB / 2 supers had 5 or 6 QCs. Couldn't find green queen so removed all but one big fat cell (possibly biggest Ive seen) which was all in its own hanging on a bare frame (just wax) and a wee bit of a honey, quite a lovely sight actually.

Gave it 3 days and then tried to tried to find eggs and young larvae. Did so, which told me the queen was there....checked for more cells and couldn't find any except a few uncharged cups.

Had a cuppa, took a deep breath and began the hunt for Queen Green. Found her on third frame (relief) with painted livery rubbed off somewhat. Remarked her and in she went.

Removed huge cell, now about a day or so away from capping and put in a NUC.

Was this supercedure? Tell tale signs? Was that huge cell all on its own any indication? Its didnt seem like swarm preps to me.

Was planning to inspect again in 7 days and then decide.

 

[Murox]

Bees will always do what they want and nothing is written in stone but it's commonly said that a cell hanging off/on the face of a comb is usually a supercedure or emergency queen cell - they are started after the eggs are laid: and cells hanging off the bottom of a comb are normally swarm cells. In double brood boxes swarm cells are frequently found hanging from the bottom of the upper row of frames in-between the two boxes.
Will be interesting to know the results of your manipulations and how that nuc develops.

 

[beeno]

You had 5-6 swarm cells what points to that is double brood, two supers and on a flow. The books say not to pick an extremely large QC, but as far as I remember not the reason why not. I had a very beautiful white QC once that I was not reliant on, but left it. Turned out to be Black Queen Cell Virus which is associated with Nosema apis. Make it 5 just in case, since you are destroying QCs.

 

[beeno]

Both swarm cells and supersedure cells are primary cells. Only emergency cells are started where the egg has already been laid in a worker cell.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Was this supercedure?

No - you had more than one QC.
If you disregard a lot of the rubbish spoken by the usual trumpets, the location of the cell has, in general little to do with whether it's supersedure or swarming.
bees just build the cells wherever it's convenient and carry on building wherever they can after the swarm has gone.
They do like to build their supersedure cells right at the edge of the brood nest, but remember the nest is three dimensional so 'right at the edge' doesn't necessarily mean slap bang in the middle of the last frame - it can also mean right by the side bar on the middle frame or right at the edhe of the brood on any other frame.
A better rule of thumb would be:
more than one QC - expect swarming
Only one QC - hope supersedure but anticipate the possibility of swarming.

 

[Swarm]

No - you had more than one QC.
If you disregard a lot of the rubbish spoken by the usual trumpets, the location of the cell has, in general little to do with whether it's supersedure or swarming.
bees just build the cells wherever it's convenient and carry on building wherever they can after the swarm has gone.
They do like to build their supersedure cells right at the edge of the brood nest, but remember the nest is three dimensional so 'right at the edge' doesn't necessarily mean slap bang in the middle of the last frame - it can also mean right by the side bar on the middle frame or right at the edhe of the brood on any other frame.
A better rule of thumb would be:
more than one QC - expect swarming
Only one QC - hope supersedure but anticipate the possibility of swarming.

This time of year, I don't think I'd leave them to it.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Many thanks.

I will consider swarm risk. Queen is clipped. Think I will check in 4 days and look for more QCs...If spotted then I'll hoik her out on a NUC split.

Would anyone recommend a Demaree for this situation? Have become a fan because of its inherent control value.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Would anyone recommend a Demaree for this situation? .

No - it's too late once they have made swarm preparations. It's a proactive rather than a reactive method

 

[JonnyPicklechin]