Super cheap cedar nationals

[farbee]

Well, that includes almost everything we import into this country, which is most things, including most of the quality western red cedar for making beehives. It has not been grown in this country for very long.

I had assumed that other suppliers use cedar from closer to home. Could be wrong on this though so need to look it up...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I had assumed that other suppliers use cedar from closer to home. Could be wrong on this though so need to look it up...

A lot of the 'second quality' cedar is home produced, but whichever way, given the choice, especially as there is not much price difference I'd rather my supplier employed a joiner in this country to machine my hive not the other side of the world

 

[Hivemaker.]

I had assumed that other suppliers use cedar from closer to home. Could be wrong on this though so need to look it up...

They do, some of them especially for making seconds, then import the quality cedar for making first quality hives. The first cedar trees were only brought to this country in the mid 1800's, so no really old mature timber available like in the USA/ Canada, where they have grown naturally for thousands of years.

 

[farbee]

They do, some of them especially for making seconds, then import the quality cedar for making first quality hives. The first cedar trees were only brought to this country in the mid 1800's, so no really old mature timber available like in the USA/ Canada, where they have grown naturally for thousands of years.

Thanks for that; It pleases me as almost all my stuff is second quality. But is it still the same wood apart from where it come from though or does it not last as long or have any other drawbacks? Not really thought too much about it before.

 

[farbee]

A lot of the 'second quality' cedar is home produced, but whichever way, given the choice, especially as there is not much price difference I'd rather my supplier employed a joiner in this country to machine my hive not the other side of the world

Agree with that too (Well in UK anyway rather that any specific country within the UK).

 

[Little John]

It would be nice to know if their National boxes have metal rails - also, whether their method of construction lends itself to modding to top bee-space.

Has anyone actually seen any of their National boxes or frames yet ? Nothing in their catalogue yet ...
LJ

Following an enquiry to Mann-Lake, I received this morning from them a .pdf of a poster (attached below) which shows the cedar boxes.

The method of construction appears to be similar to that of their Langstroths (which is hardly surprising) with castellated box joints which will make modification to top beespace difficult, and the boxes do not appear to be fitted with runners.

Which is a bummer, as their prices are very good.

LJ

 

[Erichalfbee]

Following an enquiry to Mann-Lake, I received this morning from them a .pdf of a poster (attached below) which shows the cedar boxes.

LJ

Great minds. I did the same and got the same pdf plus a note:
"Good morning,
Our new products will not appear on our web site for a few weeks yet, the intention was to give our regular contact the advantage. I have attached a pdf of the product and from Monday 5th we will be happy to answer any other questions you may have.


Regards

Patrick"

which will make modification to top beespace difficult

LJ

Why?
Can you not just shave 7mm off the rebate to drop the frames?

 

[rolande]

Thanks LJ. Good research. The design is basically the way we make a lot of our own boxes including md's -very easy construction (similar to Langstroths own, original boxes).

As for no frame runners, if that's the case then I'd think that it was a bonus.

 

[Little John]

Why?
Can you not just shave 7mm off the rebate to drop the frames?

Damn, you're good ...

I'm going back to bed right now, as I clearly need to shake-off this heavy cold ...

THANK YOU.

LJ

 

[user 6228]

...
Can you not just shave 7mm off the rebate to drop the frames?

with the right tools too many things are possible
and the excuses for not doing them unfortunately scarce

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Following an enquiry to Mann-Lake, I received this morning from them a .pdf of a poster (attached below) which shows the cedar boxes.

well, that's one quandary solved anyway (whether to order one to see what they're like) postage saved - just a bodge up to try and catch the market - wouldn't be confident of those tacked on 'rails' with a super full of honey/brood and stores. I think I'll just splash out on the extra expense (2p for the brood - I'll be getting any supers from Maisies) and go for the properly constructed ones from big T's

 

[Little John]

Important to bear in mind of course that the boxes shown are the HYBRID boxes - hence perhaps the absence of rebate rails etc., and the wooden 'rails'/handholds being attached to the outside of the main box itself. I assume the frame prices are also for those hybrid boxes ? Are their frames really compatible with standard National kit ? I can't quite see how they're getting +20% brood area with them ... but then, I can't see quite a lot of things at the moment ...

So we still need to see a photo of their standard National boxes. Anybody have one ?

LJ

 

[rolande]

wouldn't be confident of those tacked on 'rails' with a super full of honey/brood and stores.

Really don't think that would be an issue, as before, we have dadant broods, supers and 13 frame bs boxes built like this. I also know of people building lagstroths the same way. The issue, if there is one, would seem to me to be that it's yet another box size being thrown into the pot when they could have just as easily used the commercial as their 'larger' option.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I suspect the standard National deeps are the same - top bar lugs resting on the whole of the box body and the rail tacked on rather that jointed in as with modified Nats - no hand holds in the body of the boxes as with dadants, langs etc.
Again, just the wheel being reinvented.

 

[rolande]

Our homebuilt dadants don't have finger holds either. As it is, our boxes can definitely be carried by the outside rails (saw someone 'having a go at bees' do it a lot this last summer despite my suggestion not to). Personally I think the best way to move a box by hand is to hold it from underneath, that way it can be pulled in close to the body.

 

[oliver90owner]

The extra length of wood on the sides of proper Nationals affords the opportunity to fill the end panel with 25mm EPS or kingspan, and agree that one needs confidence of secure holding points when lifting boxes - even more so, with 14 x12s full of honey when used as supers

Frames are rather expensive compared to sale's seconds from throne, per eg. I've experienced about 2% losses from a batches of fifty seconds, from thrones, so I would avoid these expensive frames, at those prices, like the plague. Seems like they are hoping mugs will buy frames for the cheap boxes (to offset any subsidy on the supposed cheap boxes). Any other obscure frame sizes would most certainly not interest me. Not even the rose size. Two standard frame sizes is enough for me and people need to check that larger frames would fit their extractors....

All in all, buyer beware.

 

[MikeT]

Has any one heard when the National hives will be available?

 

[sussexbaker]

They have a big advert in the latest BBKA news featuring them, so I assume available already.

 

[enrico]

The extra length of wood on the sides of proper Nationals affords the opportunity to fill the end panel with 25mm EPS or kingspan

Now there's an idea. Why didn't I think of that!

 

[MikeT]

Rang ML yesterday, Told new catalogue is being prepared. Will be out towards the end of Feb. The Nationals are in stock but no price list available until the new catalogue is published. I was told the price of standard supers and BBs. In line with the Thornes 2nds in the sale. Pushing hard, the new modified national and the foundation replacement.

Mike




Mike