Still an empty super

[Magners Bee]

Hi all

We have a very healthy swarm which we housed in our new hive on 16 May. The queen laid immediately and the brood chamber had eggs/larvae on 9 of the frames within 20 days. The other 2 frames are filled with honey (one capped and one still being filled).

We added the super after this time so it has now been in place for around 3 weeks. Bees have been going into the super. At our weekly check we see around 30 bees in the super.

However, they haven't started to draw the frames yet. We will check again in the next couple of days so any advice on whether we should do something to encourage them to draw the frames would be helpful before we go in.

A couple of beekeepers have suggested removing the queen excluder for a week as sometimes this is seen as a barrier. Another has suggested waiting as we have been in the June low nectar period.

Thanks

 

[peteinwilts]

do you have any drawn\filled frames in your other hive?

If you have some of these, pop one or two in the hive that is reluctant to go upstairs. you should find that start going up in numbers

if they are storing downstairs keep a close eye out for QC's

 

[Magners Bee]

Thanks PeteinWilts

The other hive is still waiting for its nuc (which according to the producer is taking time due to the weather) so we don't have any used frames yet. I wouldn't want one from another keeper in case of infection (or am I being precious?)

We have been checking for those queen cells and seen some at the bottom of the brood frames. We've closed what we have seen. It is just the end frames in the brood which have the honey in them.

 

[snoop]

Take the queen excluder out of the way for a week until they start to draw the super then replace it once they have started.

 

[oliver90owner]

Your regular inspections should reveal the answer, as long as the Q/E is not one left over from a dodgy batch last year.

If the amount of brood and stores ratio is changing, you will have an idea of whether they are foraging an excess, deficit or about neutral. Bees don't draw comb if there is nothing to put in it. It is an asset, but of no use other than putting stuff into the cells, either for brooding or for storage. New wax cells are no use to a starving bee!

Think of your banking - you need to keep some money accessible (current account) rather than putting it all into long term bonds. Bees don't think that far ahead - they keep as much 'available' as possible.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Depending on the forage, there may not be enough of an excess to put upstairs. (June for me is usually a poor month). Generally they will start drawing out the super frames when they want to. Removing the excluder can help. Once they have started in the super, it needs to go back on ensuring that the queen below.

 

[itma]

... The other hive is still waiting for its nuc ...

We have been checking for those queen cells and seen some at the bottom of the brood frames. We've closed what we have seen. It is just the end frames in the brood which have the honey in them.

I'm going to suggest that you use that spare hive to do an artificial swarm - and to do it promptly - ***IF*** you are seeing proper Queen Cells (rather than mere 'play cups').

--- Difference is that a real QC has (wet-looking) royal jelly and a larva in it, rather than just being an empty 'cup'.

If your bees have got short of usable space (drawn cells) and have got the idea of swarming, you will not stop them by knocking down QCs.
You have to get them out of swarm mode.
Without lots of empty comb to give them, an artificial swarm is the thing to do - and quickly, before they go!

After the artificial swarm has been done, you could potentially recombine the two halves later this summer, or else you have your own second colony without external help.

Since you have no drawn shallow frames to get a super started, I'd suggest that you include at least a couple of shallows into the a/s foundation brood box - just for a week or so, to get them drawn. You'll probably get some awkward wild comb below, but its not hard to deal with and hopefully you won't be back into the same situation next time round, because you'll have at least a couple of drawn shallow frames.

In your situation of getting your very first ever super drawn out, I'd strongly suggest putting it *under* the brood ("nadiring" it, rather than supering) until it is largely drawn. After it is mostly drawn out, move it above, and a week or so later find the queen (and make sure she is in the bottom box) before only then fitting the QX for the first time.

I can assure you that its sadly all too common for new beeks to lose a swarm because of the brood box becoming overcrowded because the bees have not moved up into the brand new super and drawn out the comb in the space above them.
It doesn't count as "space" to/for the bees until it has been drawn. And it is a very big jump for them to start drawing out an 'above' box which has foundation only. Its easier for them to draw it when its underneath!

If those are real "charged" Queen Cells (rather than play cups), don't hang around, do that Artificial Swarm!