starting SG for mead

[Arfermo]

For me snoop once the mead has cleared fully and its clear the mead has stopped fermenting I then move it to a slightly warmer environment to see if it triggers a 2nd fermentation and then providing no sign of a bubble forming I am happy to bottle but even then from time to time I will crack the odd screw lid to check for any pressure.

Generally when the mead or any wine clears it is ready but some taste bloody awful apart from the person who made it and will think its lovely. I understand it can change and improve over time.

Just because a wine has stopped fermenting does not in any way mean that the yeast is dead - it is merely dormant due to the buildup of its alcohol tolerance and carbon dioxide in the must, and bottling without being certain it is dead is dodgy in the extreme as it is about the best way of having an explosion, when the temperature changes for instance. Ordinary wine bottles and demijohns are not pressure vessels which is why champagne bottles are extra thick due to the secondary fermentation inside the bottle that is essential to create the gassy sparkle. If you use sodium bisulphate (Campden tablets) to stun any residual yeast and then use Youngs "Sorbistat" there will almost certainly never be a secondary fermentation - in the bottle or whereever else. Furthermore, any wine in an exhibition or competition that shows bubbling (yeast activity) within the bottle when being judged would not even be tasted. The bottles in you jpg show bubbles at the top which suggests to me that your wine yeastis still active in the bottle. That should never be allowed to happen (see above).

Somebody on this site this morning asked what the appropriate starting SG for mead is. The short answer depends upon what result you are aiming for. Sweeter mead or any other wine for that matter will necessitate a higher starting SG - if that is the way you wish to play it. However, I always aim for a complete fermentation of the sugar and add more when the Hydrometer drops below 996 or so, so as to increase the alcohol content. Thus I NEVER start any wine or mead off if the SG is above 1.080 so that there is room for adjustment before finalising the wine. For degassing, which is essential before allowing final settlement, I use my wifes wire balloon attachment on her 600 watt Braun food gadget - beats gas out of 5 gals of wine in very short order.

Finally I attach a word doc which gives comparative sugar contents and Hydrometer levels to aid decisions as to where you want to start and finish. It has to be read according to the type of yeast one is using as they are not all able to produce the same acohol levels. I mainly use champagne yeasts as they are high alcohol and that allows me to adjust the wine as I wish.

 

[Tom Bick]

Just because a wine has stopped fermenting does not in any way mean that the yeast is dead - it is merely dormant due to the buildup of its alcohol tolerance and carbon dioxide in the must, and bottling without being certain it is dead is dodgy in the extreme as it is about the best way of having an explosion, when the temperature changes for instance. Ordinary wine bottles and demijohns are not pressure vessels which is why champagne bottles are extra thick due to the secondary fermentation inside the bottle that is essential to create the gassy sparkle. If you use sodium bisulphate (Campden tablets) to stun any residual yeast and then use Youngs "Sorbistat" there will almost certainly never be a secondary fermentation - in the bottle or whereever else. Furthermore, any wine in an exhibition or competition that shows bubbling (yeast activity) within the bottle when being judged would not even be tasted. The bottles in you jpg show bubbles at the top which suggests to me that your wine yeastis still active in the bottle. That should never be allowed to happen (see above).

Always happy to receive advice from someone with more experience Alfermo and the bottles in the photo had just been filled through a siphon and I have always had a few bubbles formed during this I know that if I push the tube to the bottom of the bottle I get no bubbles form but generally I just hover the tube at the top of the bottle and this forms a few bubbles but 30mins later and after the photo the bubbles had gone.

As for a disasterus 2nd fermentation I have not experienced it as yet a friend has had a beer bottle explode but not on wine and he produces plenty and is far more experienced than me. I don’t know but would be interesting if there is a percentage of risk to not chemically killing any remaining yeast and the disasterus 2nd fermentation but then perhaps one bottle exploding is one to many.

I have some sodium bisulphate but have never used them as yet I think it must have an effect on the taste of the wine my friend used it once with some citrus to sterilise some bottles (I understand this is recommended?) and he said he could hardly breath from the fumes I don’t know but apart from the honey the only other ingredient apart from yeast is some form of citrus, this citrus may not survive the fermentation but is detectable in the finished wine and some people don’t think mead is drinkable for at least two years I have tried some and have to agree but this has not been my experience. I am very happy with my wine making with minimum chemicals but may try a batch as you recommend to see if any noticeable flavour is detectable.

 

[dclewis]

I'm with Arfermo, I have fermented out in the past until it seems all is over Sg below 1.00 and beautifully clear, bottled and then a couple of months later I have not had exploding bottles but have had the corks forced out explosively. Such a waste of good honey time and effort. Glad that I stored in the garage at least, no damage was done. Now I use metabisulphate and fermentation stopper. Much better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Arfermo]

I don’t know but would be interesting if there is a percentage of risk to not chemically killing any remaining yeast and the disasterus 2nd fermentation but then perhaps one bottle exploding is one too many.

I have some sodium bisulphate but have never used them as yet I think it must have an effect on the taste of the wine my friend used it once with some citrus to sterilise some bottles (I understand this is recommended?) and he said he could hardly breath from the fumes I don’t know but apart from the honey the only other ingredient apart from yeast is some form of citrus, this citrus may not survive the fermentation but is detectable in the finished wine and some people don’t think mead is drinkable for at least two years I have tried some and have to agree but this has not been my experience. I am very happy with my wine making with minimum chemicals but may try a batch as you recommend to see if any noticeable flavour is detectable.

Thanks for not taking offence at my comments.

As to the percentage of risk by not killing the yeast before bottling, frankly yeast that is still viable in the bottle will at some stage react upon any residual sugar in the wine/mead. The risk is minimised if you ferment the wine/mead beyond SG996, ie dead dry and to my mind not very nice as an aperitif or social drink, which is not what mead is usually made for. The other aspect of not killing the yeast is that when it decides the temperature rise is right, not only will it create gas with explosive potential but also possibly cloud the wine. The first stage of the process of making champagne requires a high sugar content in the initial bottling precisely to get the yeast to ferment the sugar within the bottle. Besides gas, it also results in a lump of gunge that has to be removed in the "degustation" process. That is done by turning the bottle upside down and freezing the neck so that the gunge shoots out as a lump and the bottle (pressure vessel) is then instantly topped up with a neat alchohol and sugar mixture to eliminate the possibility of further fermentation, as the yeast is then overwhelmed and cannot ferment further. That provides the element of sweetening that makes the wine drinkable. Brut champagne still has this to a lesser degree. The gunge lump in champagne is the clouding that you might find, except that there being less residual sugar to ferment within the bottles of normal wine/mead there is not enough lees to create a lump of gunge but merely clouding. A small risk but a risk nevertheless and not something friends and acquaintances would not like to see in wine offered to them and nor should you.

As to sodium metabisulphate, that is the one thing that even commercial companies use to stop foodstuffs and the like going off. Read the ingredients on a jar or tin of whatever for the presevative content. If you sniff a campden tablet the pong is awful. However, it rapidly turns into a carbon dioxide gas which is a preservative and is undetectable within a fairly short time, especially if one uses only 1 tablet per gallon of wine before degassing etc and eventually bottling. It's all very well avoiding unnecessary chemical but Campden tablets are not in a category one should avoid for the reason I give. Your choice.

You do not appear to have viewed the document I attached to my previous response. I think it is about the most valuable contribution I can make to any would-be winemaker and, if I were you I would refer to it every time you get the urge to make more wine. I only wish I had had it available to me when I started wine making some 35 years or more ago. Even now in my dotage, it is my sugar/SG/alvcohol level bible.

If you should fancy making other country wines, I make up recipes for competitions and am happy to provide details of anything, including all the appropriate additives (chemicals you might call them) that make the wine work properly, that you might fancy. PMs are popular on this site but I tend to overlook them for ages so I may not pick up any you might send too promptly.

One last thing, and please don't take offence, but I loathe the screwcap trend. Commercial winemakers use that method for cheapness. What it also does is limit the amateur from reusing their tops for home made wine - just like you wouldn't reuse a honey jar lid -would you? Corks and a shrinkable plastic cap is far better for long term maturity as well as for presentation purposes. But kill the yeast first!!!!

Regards

H

 

[Tom Bick]

Thanks for not taking offence at my comments.

H

No problem arfermo I never detected anything in your previous post to have taken offence I have been on this forum and one other to know it is easy to get the wrong end of the stick it also helps that I have thick skin and a long fuse.

I glanced at the attached file and will take a closer look at it in time. In life for myself I do tend to simplify most things and I guess I follow that into my wine making the mead is the only time I get the hydrometer out and for my other wines its all based on weight and measures and fruit easily picked from the hedgerow. Thank you for the offer of recipes for country wines and may one day pm you requesting a recipe or perhaps a call for help when my luck runs out

When I first started making wine a few years ago now although I had a few years off I got one of the cork fitting tools and fitted corks but I like the screw cap and completely happy reusing the original caps with the bottles just as long as they are cleaned and sterilised this is wine for me family and friends also I am happy to reuse jars and lids for the blackberry jam I make every year providing the lids are in good condition. If I was going to jar some honey for myself and again family and friends I would be happy with reused jars and lids but as I buy plenty of new jars and lids each year generally don’t bother and keep the reused jars for jam.

I will take onboard what you have said on the killing of yeast I am aware of exploding bottles and as I seem to be making more wine it is lasting longer and perhaps only increasing the risk.

This year I have made Mead, Elderberry, Blackberry, Raspberry, and trying Rosehip.

 

[Arfermo]

Hi Tom,

Elderflower absolutely lovely. In fact, a speaker and National Judge at my wine club suggested that adding a slug of elderflower to any (white?) wine improves the bouquet and often the judge will not detect it but award the prize. I've given up competing - can't stand collecting stuff of no practical use.

H

 

[Tom Bick]

I had Elderflower on my list this year then had a problem to deal with and missed the flowers but they will return and I will grab some next year.

 

[Arfermo]

I had Elderflower on my list this year then had a problem to deal with and missed the flowers but they will return and I will grab some next year.

Tom,

The dry stuff is just as good imho - unless one is a connoisseur of course. I have never bothered with fresh flowers. I have a gallon on the go now but its the dried stuff I'm afraid. Incidentally, just in case I get the urge, my recipe book on Elderflower says 8 pints (4 1/2 ltrs) per gallon for the fresh ones. Is that your reckoning too? Seems a bit OTT to me as compared to 20 gr of dried.

H

 

[Tom Bick]

I have no idea what is right or wrong regards elderflower as this would have been my first attempt this year If your recipe is referring to 8 pints of fresh flowers then that is considerably more than the recipes I was looking at as they tend to hover around ¾ - 1 pint of fresh flowers per gallon.

A friend told me of a recipe of apple wine that had 24lbs of apples per gallon he is lucky as he has access to an orchard with plenty old variety of apple trees I went with him last year and within one hour we had carrier bags full of wind fallen apples as no one picks the apples and the trees are there to try and preserve the varieties.

 

[snoop]

I made mead last year & it is really strong . A friend of mine took a sample & came back to me saying it 18%. Probably more like rocket fuel than mead. Any suggestions

 

[Hivemaker.]

Any suggestions

Drink it.

 

[snoop]

I did have some at Christmas & by the time I drank the second glass I was ready for bed.

 

[oliver90owner]

by the time I drank the second glass I was ready for bed.

Of course, that may depend on other factors than alcoholic strength - the person and the size of that glass!

I would just like to make a couple comments on the thread. Sulphite will never become carbon dioxide. The gas is sulphur dioxide (just like the main version of acid rain from power stations, or exactly the same as the gas from burning a sulphur candle) and will remain until either dissipated to the air or oxidised to sulphate.

17% is the top end of even champagne yeasts. There are others which will ferment to over 20% but with downsides. So to suggest 18% is a bit OTT, I would think, especially without accurate comparison with the starting SG.

Arfermo says: but I loathe the screwcap trend

I agree if one wants to mature a wine for a long time, but once sulphited to kill the yeast and sorbated to prevent any further yeast reproduction, should there still be any left, the screw cap is perfectly OK for short term storage and maturing, IMO. We don't use corks in honey jars!' is my retort to Arfermo's comment. The stopper is there to keep air (oxygen) from the bottle; you don't get 'corked wines' with other stoppers either, (screwed or just plastic).

However screwed caps are potentially dangerous for the home wine maker - see this video, especially at 1 minute 12 seconds, if you have any doubt about that.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K-rJ-xva58[/ame]

I have no reason to believe that shard was added afterwards, looking at the catastrophic nature of the detonation - glass all over the room.