Starting a new Bee Association BBKA advice please

[Thymallus]

Sorry to hear your house has burnt down, we will not be paying out on your insurance as we found out that you sold a jar of honey last month, and never told us about it.

Yup, you got it! You are running a business from home and have insured it as private dwelling.

 

[Teemore]

BBKA is made up of BKA's in England. The other home nations Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own national BKA's.

The Institute of Northern Ireland beekeepers is in fact affiliated to the BBKA. We also have the Ulster Bee Keepers Association acting as an umbrella body for local associations and then there is the Armagh and Monaghan Bee Keepers Association which is affiliated to the Federation of Irish bee Keeping Associations in preference to the UBKA.

 

[Jon cobb]

Whatever happened to the popular people's front?

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Splitters!

 

[Cussword]

Whatever happened to the popular people's front?

Power to the people!

 

[Fatbee]

I joined local when I started because it felt the right thing to do but do struggle with talking to most of the members on anything if it's slightly out of the box. I was telling some old boy about my move to foundationless and it was like I had just slapped him in the face. Fortunately I don't take it to heart and back myself through doing and learning through forums like this but would like a bit more 21st century thinking.

Not allowing beginners to keep their own bees really annoyed me - which I ignored

 

[masterBK]

Surely going foundationless is not progressive but reverting back (as in top bar beekeeping as introduced from Greece by Sir George Wheeler 1682). Many associations recommend that beginners get up to a years hands on experience with other peoples (often association bees) bees under the guidance of a local mentor before getting their own and there are many obvious reasons for this recommendation and I think this is good practice. Many people come a cropper leaping into beekeeping too early without this experience.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Surely going foundationless is not progressive but reverting back (as in top bar beekeeping as introduced from Greece by Sir George Wheeler 1682). Many associations recommend that beginners get up to a years hands on experience with other peoples (often association bees) bees under the guidance of a local mentor before getting their own and there are many obvious reasons for this recommendation and I think this is good practice. Many people come a cropper leaping into beekeeping too early without this experience.

Going foundationless should be a personal choice but for cut comb I can see the obvious benefits. OK wired foundation makes life somewhat easier, especially if extracting with a tangential extractor. It's also more tolerant of clumsy handling.
I disagree with the ambition to have beginners spend a year working other people's bees but will agree entirely that having a good mentor is the way forward. Note I said good, not just local. A good mentor will accurately demonstrate, guide, monitor and explain the what and the why of each task and action. "because it's always done this way" is not an explanation in my book.
A beginner working with their own hive has an immediate incentive to care and learn.
Beekeeping is a hobby which can range from simple (hah!) relaxation to in depth application of the sciences. You pays your money and you takes your pick. Being given the right knowledge to start is the key.

 

[B+.]

Can anyone give me some advice on becoming affiliated to the BBKA with a new Bee Association?

I am curious what purpose this new association is intended to serve. The current system is for associations to be county oriented. Does the OP have something different in mind?

 

[Fatbee]

Surely going foundationless is not progressive but reverting back (as in top bar beekeeping as introduced from Greece by Sir George Wheeler 1682). Many associations recommend that beginners get up to a years hands on experience with other peoples (often association bees) bees under the guidance of a local mentor before getting their own and there are many obvious reasons for this recommendation and I think this is good practice. Many people come a cropper leaping into beekeeping too early without this experience.

I didn't say it was necessarily progressive just a different way of doing things which works for me which when suggested was frowned upon.

The mantra of can't keep bees if one of us don't teach you comes across an old boys club.

 

[td4bees]

Can anyone give me some advice on becoming affiliated to the BBKA with a new Bee Association?

Questions are:

1. Does the BBKA have any requirements about the membership or experience of the beekeepers?

2. Does it take into account other Associations in the same area before allowing affiliation?

3. Anything else?

Many thanks.

best advice is DON'T BOTHER

 

[peterbees]

The Institute of Northern Ireland beekeepers is in fact affiliated to the BBKA. We also have the Ulster Bee Keepers Association acting as an umbrella body for local associations and then there is the Armagh and Monaghan Bee Keepers Association which is affiliated to the Federation of Irish bee Keeping Associations in preference to the UBKA.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[pargyle]

I also struggle with membership of the BBKA and if I had a choice to be part of a group that was not connected I would probably join. But for the most part I simply allow myself to forget about the BBKA and focus on the very nice people I have become good friends with through my association as without beekeeing would not be as much fun.

+1 ...Apart from the insurance the BBKA is largely irrelevant to my beekeeping - but my local association are an interesting bunch - all welcoming although when I first joined there were a few eyebrow raised at my beekeeping. They've got used to it and actually a few are interested .. I enjoy the off season lectures and the events - so in some ways I'm grateful that the BBKA is there but there's a lot wrong with it and it's not going to change in a hurry.

 

[pargyle]

Yup, you got it! You are running a business from home and have insured it as private dwelling.

This has got to be rubbish ... I've crossed swords with a number of insurance companies over the years but they usually crumble when the argument put to them is fair and reasonable. Any court in the land will apply the 'fair and reasonable' test to any transaction brought before them. If you are a hobby beekeeper, selling a few jars of honey when there is a surplus, does not constitute a 'business' IMO - we've had THAT discussion a few times in the past. However, if you have a large number of hives and use part of your home in order to run 'a business' then you should declare it as such - a domestic home insurance policy is just that .. a policy covering 'business premises' is a different kettle of fish.

Typical BBKA scaremongering as far as I can see.

Where's Thorn when you want him ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Typical BBKA scaremongering as far as I can see.

How is that then...the post on BBKA forum was started by a new beekeeper with just 11 posts.

 

[pargyle]

How is that then...the post on BBKA forum was started by a new beekeeper with just 11 posts.

In that case .. it wasn't BBKA scaremongering .. but with the legal team they have at their disposal, if it was rubbish, one would have thought that they (The BBKA) would have told their forum members that it WAS rubbish ? They have plenty of form for taking down posts - yet they leave one that clearly is a misinformed one ?

As I rarely visit the BBKA Forum (and when I do I find it very frustrating) I have declined to participate in this thread much ... but misinformation needs to be challenged.

 

[Hivemaker.]

... but misinformation needs to be challenged.

How is it misinformation ? the guy was told by his insurance company that his insurance was invalid...and as far as they and other insurance companies contacted were concerned, it was.

No insurance company contacted so far has agreed to provide domestic house insurance when honey is extracted on the premises and then sold. All have classified it as a business, irrespective of how few jars are sold.

UPDATE

Saga have reconsidered their original decision taking the view that as a small scale hobby beekeeper, it was unreasonable to require a significant additional premium for 'business' cover. I am relieved at their common sense and willingness to discuss and tailor insurance to meet our needs. We now have exactly the same insurnace cover for buildings and contents but with the small additional note stating that the insured property is "used in connection with your Honey Producer business and you receive an average of 2 visitors per week". The insurance premium has not been increased.

Despite 'opening a can of worms' etc, I hope that my case may be quoted by others who find themselves in the same position. Clearly at least one major insurance provider is willing to apply common sense and I applaud them for listening and personalising our cover rather than blindly applying inappropriate rules. Please note I have no association or interest in Saga other than as a customer.

 

[Thymallus]

.. but misinformation needs to be challenged.

Before you dismiss as rubbish and misinformation I suggest you ring your home insurance companies and ask them. Get some informed opinion rather than list misinformation. No-one will, but if anyone does it would be good if they could let us know what they say.
Currently you seem to be armchair refereeing over matters you have no knowledge about.
We had to change out insurance to business class because we run a business. If you are only selling honey from home then it appears that you are classed (by insurance companies) as running a business.
As it turned out the original posters problem was solved by them agreeing (Saga Insurance)to add that he was a beekeeper selling small amounts of Honey and no increase in premium.
This was not a wind up.
The telegraph came to his house to take photographs and was supposed to run an article about it last Saturday. I couldn't find anything on the online edition. Perhaps someone saw it?
The link to the original posts is here
You will need to log in as a member of the BBKA

 

[For want of a better word]

Sorry to hear your house has burnt down, we will not be paying out on your insurance as we found out that you sold a jar of honey last month, and never told us about it.

Must be a bit of and old chestnut that one...!!!
I heard it as .. you sold some ear rings on ebay last month so we will not be paying out for the house fire as you are running a business from home!

Luckily we have a Skiber that we run any one of a number of businesses from!

( House is insured separately on a different NFU policy... and they even give us a discount on it as we have a Farm policy with them)

Recently I am told a [too near for comfort IMOLO] beekeeper who had EFB discovered in a colony... and destruction followed... said there was no point in claiming from BDI because he has more than 40 colonies!



Yeghes da

 

[Thymallus]

Must be a bit of and old chestnut that one...!!!
I heard it as .. you sold some ear rings on ebay last month so we will not be paying out for the house fire as you are running a business from home!

Someone I know quite well who was telling me (and also the BBKA list) that when his mates car got nicked he complained about the amount they offered. He said he's just had some expensive designer wheels put on...
Sorry sir, you have modified your car and not informed us, it invalidated your insurance policy. He got nowt for a £5K car.
On e-bay there are private sales which is not a business and peoplel who make a business out of selling on e-bay. The later are the ones who currently are having their accounts closely audited by the tax office. I'm sure it will have bearings on their house insurance, should the insures find out.