Spring Preparation for OSR

[UEAHoneyBeeMan]

Hi Everyone,

This year, for the first time, I have hives close to fields that will have Spring Oil Seed Rape.

I want to prepare the colonies to be as strong as possible for taking advantage of the crop.
Should I feed early to encourage a larger population and thus have bees ready to forage and if so what should I feed? fondant, light or heavy syrup?

I currently have fondant on the colonies which the bees are taking although having hefted them they are of a decent weight with stores so this is probably not needed yet.

Any thoughts?

Stewart

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

You need a mass of bees for a good harvest, and feeding can be counter productive as cells full of food mean less space for the queen to lay in. Of course they must have sufficient stores to survive, but not jam packed.

Pollen substitute (eg Neopoll) can encourage brood development before proper pollen flows come in, so that something to consider in a month or two.

 

[MuswellMetro]

You need a mass of bees for a good harvest, and feeding can be counter productive as cells full of food mean less space for the queen to lay in. Of course they must have sufficient stores to survive, but not jam packed.

Pollen substitute (eg Neopoll) can encourage brood development before proper pollen flows come in, so that something to consider in a month or two.

sorry but not for spring oil seed rape, his post says Spring OSR not Winter OSR

no need for build up as Spring OSR flowers in the late flow, The flow off spring OSR can be quite light

Or has he made a Mistake and mean Winter OSR?

 

[Skyhook]

I think we can assume this post is referring to winter sown, spring flowering rape.

To stimulate early brood you would want to feed light syrup- which could be 1:1 or even lighter- I have heard of 1:10 being fed.

The idea is that heavy syrup will encourage them to store it, whereas what is required is for them to think a nectar flow has started. This can be fed either in small amounts in a contact or rapid feeder (no more than 1L/week) or in a slow feeder, eg a jar with a few small nail holes in the lid inverted over the feed hole. You don't want to give them enough to store, just for them to think there is a flow starting.

Some people use pollen substitutes/supplements: but as mine went into winter with slabs of pollen, and have been bringing it in on and off all winter, I cant see it will be needed.

.

 

[susbees]

I think we can assume this post is referring to winter sown, spring flowering rape.

To stimulate early brood you would want to feed light syrup- which could be 1:1 or even lighter- I have heard of 1:10 being fed.

The idea is that heavy syrup will encourage them to store it, whereas what is required is for them to think a nectar flow has started. This can be fed either in small amounts in a contact or rapid feeder (no more than 1L/week) or in a slow feeder, eg a jar with a few small nail holes in the lid inverted over the feed hole. You don't want to give them enough to store, just for them to think there is a flow starting.

Some people use pollen substitutes/supplements: but as mine went into winter with slabs of pollen, and have been bringing it in on and off all winter, I cant see it will be needed.

.

, but do others agree with just a litre....or a litre every few days? OSR is something we just don't do here. You got here PDQ Stewart ...great forum if you can take a little heat sometimes

 

[Finman]

I To stimulate early brood you would want to feed light syrup- which could be 1:1 or even lighter- I have heard of 1:10 being fed.

.

The old Fact is that syrup does not stimulate brooding. If you read real authority advices, no one advice to stimulate brood rearing with syrup.
If bees have not pollen, they use their own brotein reserves and die early.

Long time ago I tried too stimulate brood rearing with excracted combs but brood area was almost nothing.

If bees have pollen store in the hive, they rear brood without stimulating.

They continue as longs as they have pollen.

Even if you have in nature pollen during Spring, weathers are not so good that bees get enough pollen. Temp must be 16C that bees can make a full size pollen ball into their legs.

.

.

 

[UEAHoneyBeeMan]

Just to clarify, Spring Flowering OSR, so yes winter sown.

Thanks for all the comments.

 

[UEAHoneyBeeMan]

, but do others agree with just a litre....or a litre every few days? OSR is something we just don't do here. You got here PDQ Stewart ...great forum if you can take a little heat sometimes

Well, you did say I would get answers to my questions here

I can see I will have to be very specific in the wording I use, it's like being talked about as a child in the corner of the room!

 

[Poly Hive]

I have never thought that feeding light syrup would stimulate brooding, but...

I firmly believe that some pollen and some syrup acts as an insurance to help the bees in dire weather to continue building up.

In the soft sunny south it is probably unnecessary but further north I know it helps.

PH

 

[Finman]

.
With one full pollen frame you get one frame of brood. It gives 3 frames bees.

To get 10 frames of bees you need 4 full frames of pollen.

To get honey from rape needs couple of boxes full of bees.
Smaller colony consume food to brood rearing.

When I accelerate my biggest hives to get early yield, the first thing is that patty feeding begins 6 weeks earlier. Hive eates during that time soya+yeast+pollen patty 4 kilos + willow pollen. (not some)

To one box hives it takes 8-10 weeks that they are ready to forage surplus.

When early yield begins, all wintered bees have died.

.... some views according 22 years experience.
.

 

[oliver90owner]

Three things bees need for brooding:

Water.
Protein.
Carbohydrate.

If they do not have all three, they will not be able to support much brood.

In winter they don't need any more water (they can last for weeks, without going out, after all). They just need thermal energy to keep the cluster warm.

The observant beek will notice that larvae are very soft; they have a hydro-skeleton, so are made up of lots of water. They are fed a lot of protein - for all those bee-body parts you see in the imago stage of the life cycle (although in the social insects this term may not be truly correct as it usually means sexually mature, which worker bees, very evidently, are not). They will also need carbohydrate for this rapid growth, some of the body parts and for the energy to metamorphose in the pupation stage.

I don't normally feed carbohydrate as there is plenty left in the combs, hopefully, in spring. I don't usually feed pollen, as they have copius amounts stored in-comb from the previous autumn and it is often very freely available in spring. I do 'feed' water, the one component they will have to import for brooding.

Should the weather become too cold, they will not have sufficient supply and the expansion will suffer, so water is a must. Often an external source can be used if warm enough and close enough.

I usually started them on sugar syrup (was told, and read, to use 1:1, to initiate spring brooding, years ago) but now soon dilute it more and more. An in-house feeder or an entrance feeder is often used up quite quickly.

I use an entrance feeder inside the Dartingtons, and this seems to be very effective as the water is seemingly just that little bit warmer than being 'hung' on the outside.

My Dartingtons are usually fairly sharp to start brooding in spring; I often insulate the side-walls and they have dividers fitted within the end walls - they are just so easy to expand in spring by moving the divider(s) back and slot in another frame or two.

I really only did this last season (diluting to near zero sugar concentration), so not fully tested, but fairly obvious when one considers the bees' brooding requirements in a little more detail. I have fed less dilute than 1:1 previously, though, as I could not see the point of feeding a lot of sugar when there were plenty of in-house supplies remaining from the autumn (which I wanted to be just about used up by the time of the OSR flow).

I obviosly would feed extra carbohydrate or protein as sugar syrup and pollen substitute if I found they were needing extra.

Hope that helps the 'thinkers', out there.

RAB

 

[MuswellMetro]

UEAHoneyman

well like you this will be my first year on OSR because my hives are normally witihn the M25 ring road on a farm of all pasture and feed corn (it is a yummy mummy gymkhana area, all Rangerover , volvo and merc 4x4s just used to tow the horse box on the road, never in a field or snow)

But this year however i will have 4 hives further out in a spinney surrounded by 200 hectares of Winter sown OSR, it will be interesting to compare them to other hives i have

i intend to start feeding Neopol pollen Fondant shortly and will add a water front feeder...my view is that i want them to use up any crystallized Ivy honey and fondant, we will see if it works, it was recommended by my cousin in Berkshire who does that every year with good results

i also intend to stack in full flow a spare super of foundation separated by newspaper above their filling super ,just to give expansion if they fill it fast

 

[Finman]

Three things bees need for brooding:

Water.
Protein.
Carbohydrate.
Hope that helps the 'thinkers', out there.

RAB

You have in Britain 10C warm now. bees have allways water there.

All hives have carbodyrates. If not, they are dead.

Protein hives have so longs as they have. It it is finish, bees destroy larvae and eate them

Rab does not bring added value to discussion with his longstory.

Brood rearing does not happen 1:1 syrup. That is old rubbish and nothing to do with that knowledge what Dr. A. De Groot in 1953 revieled. = 60 years ago....
.http://www.honeybee.com.au/Library/pollen/nutrition.html

.

Problem in Britain is that it is very difficult to bye irradiated pollen to make patty, perhaps impossible.
Business is so small that companies does not want to make business with that stuff.

Me for example, I use now 2005 harvested Chinese pollen, but it works.
.

 

[oliver90owner]

Perhaps you need to read it in entirety, Finman. It actually explains things for beginners.

Of, course, as has been stated so many times before, Finnish hives have very different conditions than Brtitish hives. For instance, have you not read in the forum posts recently, of all the reported pollen collections by bees, NOW, not like your's that will not venture out for another two or three months. Sorry to have disturbed your hibernation.

So it is your several posts which likely add nothing useful to the thread.

FYI, there is ample time for the temperatures to fall sub-zero levels for several days, or even a couple weeks. Our weather is sooo different than yours that beekeeping in Finland may be as relevant to the US, as it is to the UK. Sugarbush wants a chat with you, I am sure.

 

[Finman]

.
Oliver. More Rubbish. I do not talk about Finnish hives.

What I have learned about brood rearing with patty is from USA, Australia, Canada, New Zealand. Our new beekeeping books does not even have "bee nutrition" word.

It is vain to play me away with that Finnish card. There is no such card.
And the biology of bees is not different in British Isles. It is everywhere the same.

And we have talked about bee spring feeding and about patty tens of times in this forum. And what are the traces of these discussions. Nothing.

 

[dpearce4]

can i ask something dumb please?


roughly when does the winter OSR start to flower in the south? i know i see it every year but never really took much notice until now as i have bees (of which most are near OSR fields).

 

[Finman]

For instance, have you not read in the forum posts recently, of all the reported pollen collections by bees,e.

Why don't you say to beginner that bees are just bringing so much pollen that you need not to do anything. It is January now pal even in UK.
It takes however 2 months that the hive starts to expand even if they have now 4 brood frames inside.

Before that your rape has bloomed if weathers are so warm as now.

 

[tonybloke]

Hi Stewart, welcome to the forum, from another Norfolk Beekeeper

 

[MuswellMetro]

can i ask something dumb please?


roughly when does the winter OSR start to flower in the south? i know i see it every year but never really took much notice until now as i have bees (of which most are near OSR fields).

last year it was first week in May but spring was early

 

[dpearce4]

so if i want to hit it i need to start to feed round about beggining of march then?