Splitting Buckfast Colony - will they turn bad

[SWEET]

Well you can make a nuc up for your new queen and you have another colony for next year
Win win

Thanks, glad to hear timing not overly late. Luckily i purchased a nuc and frames just in case. Today will be the decider i reckon, lets see how they react.

 

[SDM]

My understanding that the genes mostly responsible for defensive behaviour come from the drones that mate with the queen. If you have nice drones in the area your queen will hopefully make gentle daughter queens; if not, watch out (regardless of what type of queen you have)

It's the luck of the draw

I've been testing this out.a bit. I've long known i can take buckfast to f4 with.no issues mated.at home . Ditto for the daughters of pure Amm and Carnica. The offspring show a clear buckfast influence in their appearance, but never an aggression issue.
So I tried daughters of pure Amm and Carnica at the sites where my buckfast can't be allowed to open mate and both races had exactly the same problem.

 

[SWEET]

They became worse, utter nightmare and only been the fact i've spent the past 3 years reading this board/all the advice (and building experience) i never ran away never to return.

So feeling confident took the 3 supers off to expose the BB, went to remove the first frame, hive explodes, i'd even covered the frames with a cloth (just in case). So put everything back to quickly ponder a plan. No warning bumps just direct attacks/stings, never experienced that.

Strapped the hive picked it up (70kg?) and carried it 10 foot away, placed a nuc box on original site with foundation, then started to open the hive to release the most evil bees. Removed the supers and placed on another hive ( after about 30 mins) to reduce the volume. Then took a couple of frames from the BB and replaced some of the foundation (oh what fun) veil was covered.

Needed to find and despatch the queen, carried the BB 100 feet away then opened that up and tried to get all the aggressive bees to attack (not much effort required), this worked perfect as after a couple of cycles they flew back to original site. The remaining bees seemed far more chilled allowing me to go through the frames and find the witch, result.

Plan to introduce the new queen (caged/plugged) to BB today, move the Nuc from hell 10 foot away and place back on original site.

Weather was an utter pain, sudden downpours not forecast so adding to the stress and a change of plan.

Reminder of the potential dangers with our fluffy friends but in fairness this aggression built over a few months so plenty of warning, and was my fault ultimately.

 

[Erichalfbee]

They became worse, utter nightmare and only been the fact i've spent the past 3 years reading this board/all the advice (and building experience) i never ran away never to return.

So feeling confident took the 3 supers off to expose the BB, went to remove the first frame, hive explodes, i'd even covered the frames with a cloth (just in case). So put everything back to quickly ponder a plan. No warning bumps just direct attacks/stings, never experienced that.

Strapped the hive picked it up (70kg?) and carried it 10 foot away, placed a nuc box on original site with foundation, then started to open the hive to release the most evil bees. Removed the supers and placed on another hive ( after about 30 mins) to reduce the volume. Then took a couple of frames from the BB and replaced some of the foundation (oh what fun) veil was covered.

Needed to find and despatch the queen, carried the BB 100 feet away then opened that up and tried to get all the aggressive bees to attack (not much effort required), this worked perfect as after a couple of cycles they flew back to original site. The remaining bees seemed far more chilled allowing me to go through the frames and find the witch, result.

Plan to introduce the new queen (caged/plugged) to BB today, move the Nuc from hell 10 foot away and place back on original site.

Weather was an utter pain, sudden downpours not forecast so adding to the stress and a change of plan.

Blimey!
Well done
If you have a push in cage you stand a better chance of acceptance. Good luck

 

[Ian123]

May be to late but trying to introduce a queen to a full size aggressive hive gives you the worst acceptance rate going. At the very least a nuc af young bees from this or even better a quiet hive is the best advice.

 

[philipm]

Would definitely use a push in cage.Think you have more chance of them excepting her.

 

[Show me the honey]

May be to late but trying to introduce a queen to a full size aggressive hive gives you the worst acceptance rate going. At the very least a nuc af young bees from this or even better a quiet hive is the best advice.

Why is this?

 

[Bakerbee]

Very interesting thread.last year had three hive 2 pure buckie 1 pure ammall 3 calm gentle bees.. After swarms while out of country in may (couldnt be avoided even witb best efforts to avoid travel and swarms) returned to 2 still placid new buckie cross daughters and one devil incarnet amm daughter cross. Ive had an aggressive hive before but this is evil on steroids! Made them queenless for 2 weeks( not fun finding her that was for sure!) and successfully introduced a pure carni. 4 weeks in now and waiting , inspected this week, all well with quiet nurse bees and evil flyers still, roll on the next 2 weeks. Cleatly some breeds mix with local drones better than others!

 

[SWEET]

@Erichalfbee - thanks, learnt a lot from this.

@Ian123 - agreed but i've managed to break the hive down a fair bit, the remainder in the BB were mostly young/chilled.

Yeah used a Jz-Bz cage, sprayed with sugar mist to help spread the pheromones.

I'll leave the candy tapped shut for a few days and see how it goes (she was not attacked). Far easier today having bled the evil flyers into that Nuc but had to move the BB a few times to rid the rest of the nasties.


Seems there was a battle with the hive i'd placed the supers on but these were feral wasp killers (fine with me) so fingers crossed they killed the most aggressive bees.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[SWEET]

Just stood next to the hive and poked them with grass, all seems fine!

Thunderstorms tomorrow so i'll leave the queen cage candy taped till Wednesday.

 

[mbc]

Introducing a queen to a nuc and then uniting over newspaper once she's accepted is the best way to get new queens into big colonies imho.

 

[SWEET]

@mbc - thanks, maybe i'll try that in future or this fails.

No storms and sunny so decided to remove the tape on the cage, like a different hive, couple of headbangers and the odd ratty bee but much better, added a little feed to keep them occupied while they release her.

Only a few bees hanging on the cage and followed as i removed it, not the mass of bees i'd expected on opening.

Fingers crossed.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

@mbc - thanks, maybe i'll try that in future or this fails.

No storms and sunny so decided to remove the tape on the cage, like a different hive, couple of headbangers and the odd ratty bee but much better, added a little feed to keep them occupied while they release her.

Only a few bees hanging on the cage and followed as i removed it, not the mass of bees i'd expected on opening.

Fingers crossed.

As long as you make sure they can't get at the candy and the queen has a safe place to shelter, I find if they are given plenty of time before being allowed to release her then all is fine - have left colonies for a week before removing the tape before now and all has ended well.
Putting the new queen in immediately on despatching the old one helps - and leaving the attendants in the cage.

 

[SWEET]

As long as you make sure they can't get at the candy and the queen has a safe place to shelter, I find if they are given plenty of time before being allowed to release her then all is fine - have left colonies for a week before removing the tape before now and all has ended well.
Putting the new queen in immediately on despatching the old one helps - and leaving the attendants in the cage.

Thanks for the info, she's been locked away since Sunday afternoon so a good couple of days, hope thats enough.

 

[bobba]

Long story short - I had one hive, now I have 2 queen less hives. So I have been reading with great interest.

I have ordered 2 queens that should arrive on Friday.

I have really noticed a manger difference in the temperament of my bees since they have been queen-less. They have not been stingy, but they seem to run around a lot and jump all over my gloves as soon as I put them near the frames. They have been revving at the slightest disturbance and I fear they are on the verge of attack when I handle them.

When inducting the queens I am planning to put an eke on, then put the queen cage on top of the frames. Then go back in 3 days and if all looks good, release the plug so the bees can start eating the candy.

Unfortunately the weather looks to be bad, combined with my bees being queenlessly grumpy I don't have much confidence handling them. That is why I have opted for this plan.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Long story short - I had one hive, now I have 2 queen less hives. So I have been reading with great interest.

I have ordered 2 queens that should arrive on Friday.

I have really noticed a manger difference in the temperament of my bees since they have been queen-less. They have not been stingy, but they seem to run around a lot and jump all over my gloves as soon as I put them near the frames. They have been revving at the slightest disturbance and I fear they are on the verge of attack when I handle them.

When inducting the queens I am planning to put an eke on, then put the queen cage on top of the frames. Then go back in 3 days and if all looks good, release the plug so the bees can start eating the candy.

Unfortunately the weather looks to be bad, combined with my bees being queenlessly grumpy I don't have much confidence handling them. That is why I have opted for this plan.

Don't bother with the eke - just put the cage between two frames - takes seconds

 

[bobba]

Don't bother with the eke - just put the cage between two frames - takes seconds

Thanks jenkinsbrynmair.

Your comment helped change my mind.

I suspended the queen cages on string and hung them between the frames.

I was up against the wind and rain, so only had a short window of time. But my bees were in a surprisingly friendly mood today. So putting the queens in position was easy.

I have watched a load of youtubes where guys have introduced queens. And the bees seem to bundle all over the cage for better or worse. But my bees barley seemed interested in them. I saw a few almost stumble on the cage by mistake and they straight away stuck their tongs in to offer food. But that was it, the rest just carried on doing their thing.

I would have observed longer but the gusts of wind were strong and it was starting to rain.