spacings and amount of frames

[always weeding]

i have just bought some beekeeping equipment and am now really confused as a few people have said to have 10 frames in the supers which i have done and used the already castleated spacers. no problem with that

With the Brood boxes i have been told to use 11 frames with a dummy board but need to space the frames in the brood box. i had some castelated spacers come with the kit but they are 9 slot? so where do they go?
and is it better to use plastic spacers or castelated on my brood box
and finally can you not just guess the gap as long as they all look pretty even?

ade

 

[itma]

For the brood box, use "hoffman" frames (google if unfamiliar) packed tight together. Since the frames set the spacing, they should be used on rails - without castellations.
A dummy board will fill the spare space at the end.
Pull the dummy board first when inspecting, and after inspecting the frame next to it, replace that frame tight to the wall. Continue replacing the frames tight against those already inspected, and you'll end up with the space at the other end - to be filled with the dummy. Quick, easy, convenient.
You need rails to do it, though!

Super frames need much less inspection, so the same rules need not apply ...


/ and plastic (or metal) spacers are a blithering nuisance, best avoided, IMHO.

 

[always weeding]

Thanks for the quick response, i have already bought frames and they are not hoffman frames. is there anything else i can do with using the spacers then? could i not space them by eye as long as they look even and use the dummy board on the end?

 

[MuswellMetro]

i have just bought some beekeeping equipment and am now really confused as a few people have said to have 10 frames in the supers which i have done and used the already castleated spacers. no problem with that

With the Brood boxes i have been told to use 11frames with a dummy board but need to space the frames in the brood box. i had some castelated spacers come with the kit but they are 9 slot? so where do they go?
and is it better to use plastic spacers or castelated on my brood box
and finally can you not just guess the gap as long as they all look pretty even?

ade

you need to slide the brood frames along the runners slowley when inspections are carried out , so as not to crush the queen or bees when putting the frames back, you cannot easily do this with castelations as they are fixed and at ten spaces in a brood box you will get uneven cells and brace comb making inspections a problem as it will all be stuck together (brood cells are smaller in depth than those they can make for honey storage)

9 or 10 castelations, , it is normal to start foundation on 10 or 12 in a super and change to nine for drawn comb the next year.this makes them draw bigger honey cells..thats if you use castelation.

the alternative is hoffmans or manley self spacing frames or wide spacers, (44mm wide spacers as opposed to 37mm brood spacing) The wide spacers allow you to start with 12 (alternate spacers only) and change to wide spacing 44mm ( spacers on each frame)

my veiw is throw all the frames away and buy 6 hoffman brood frames ( you nuc will have 5 frames already) and manley or hoffman frames for the supers and a pack of runners for the supers.....i dont like castelation near my fingers as i dont like the site of blood

i use hoffmans throughout, ok less honey and more wooden frames per box but easier to extract, i only use manleys for cut comb


GUESSING the gap, ok an old beekeepers i know uses his thumb but the FERA SBI thinks he is mad and tell him off

i have done it in a super but please dont do it in the brood box as the spacing needs to be more exact, ok for emergency in the supers when you find you have one less frame than you thought...however when you lift the box off the frames can move and you get bees stuck in the comband it can get very messyi..I think you would be better using a tried method rather than guessing but it you do dont leave large gaps or they will fill it with brace comb (i know to my cost)

 

[Oscarmonster]

You can get Hoffman converter clips for normal frames from all good stockists, and a few bad ones

 

[always weeding]

thank you.i have only just bought ,assembled and placed the new frames in the brood box, there are already runners in the brood box and my plan is to use 11 frames with dummy board. so can i space them evenly by eye or is that just stupidity on my part

 

[always weeding]

thank you.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

thank you.i have only just bought ,assembled and placed the new frames in the brood box, there are already runners in the brood box and my plan is to use 11 frames with dummy board. so can i space them evenly by eye or is that just stupidity on my part

You could, but you don't want to slip and damage the queen so you are much better off spending a few pounds on plastic frame spacers which slide over the frame lugs - then you can just push them all together just as you would with Hoffmans

 

[itma]

... i have already bought frames and they are not hoffman frames. is there anything else i can do with using the spacers then? could i not space them by eye as long as they look even and use the dummy board on the end?

You should (when the time comes) be able to get away with 'spacing by eye' for super frames.
Its far from ideal though - not least because the frames are loose and can slide during lifting off for inspections (and naturally, hive transport).
Castellations are cheap, and not hard to change.
Some people seem to have shallow boxes with different castellations. 11 slot to start undrawn frames, 10 for working, and 9 for fattening the combs to get the most honey from extracting the fewest frames. 10 is a normal compromise.

You need something better for brood frames though. Slip-on spacers at the very (ghastly) minimum. They don't stop the frames swinging when moved/lifted though.
"Hoffman converters" (going round the sidebar) may upset the side beespace, and generate brace comb. Take greater care to centralise (side to side) the frames before closing up.

 

[Nellie]

thank you.i have only just bought ,assembled and placed the new frames in the brood box, there are already runners in the brood box and my plan is to use 11 frames with dummy board. so can i space them evenly by eye or is that just stupidity on my part

Wouldn't go so far as to call it stupidity but I think you're making life more difficult for yourself. With spacers or Hoffman frames you don't have to think about it. Push 'em together, put in the dummy board and lever them nice and tight with your hive tool, lid back on, job done.

Best place for castellated spacers IMO is in the bin or turned upside down and recycled as frame runners. I think they're horrible in supers and absolutely wouldn't recommend them in brood boxes. Once you get a bit of propolis on the go it's very difficult, in my experience, to smoothly and gently get a frame out of the things. You can get away with that in the supers because there are far fewer fliers up there and you don't need to mess around with the frames as much anyway.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Don't rely on eye for the brood chamber. As you don't have hoffman self-spacing frames, then use the plastic ends with a 38 mm spacing. They work fine. (You can get converter clips or you can glue little bits of wood to make a 35 - 38 mm spacing between frame centres).

For the supers, use the same spacing in the first year - i.e. 35 - 38 mm. Once the comb has been drawn out you can drop down to 10 or 9 frames using castellated spacers or wider plastic ends. It's less of a problem working supers by eye but I would not suggest it at first.

9 frame castellations are designed for supers but if super frames with foundation only are spaced too wide apart initially you'll get unwanted comb between the frames which is a mess. Once the foundation has been drawn, then you're OK.

For new foundation and supers, I put 11 or 12 frames in a box and then once capped and the honey extracted, I then drop to 10.
If you have both drawn comb and new foundation you can interleave new with drawn and still go with 10 frames in a super as the gap between the frames is too big for the bees to get ideas of putting comb where you don't want it. (Well, most if the time).

 

[always weeding]

brilliant,thank you so much everyone.

 

[hedgerow pete]

i always have 11 frames in the brood box, but i NEVER HAVE 11 IN THE SUPERS i start the season off with ten and then spready them out so i can get 8 or 9 at the most in there, several reasons but the mains ones are easier and quicker to harvest the honey

 

[Firefly]

I've just been downstairs with a tape measure because I found all this a bit confusing

I reckon the Hoffman frames I'm using create a distance between the centre of 2 adjacent frames of 35mm

I reckon the standard plastic "narrow" spacers I got from our biggest national supplier create a spacing of 38mm

Said suppliers advertise these plastic spacers on their web site as << Plastic Narrow Ends >> and label them << 1 7/8" spacing in red, blue, green, yellow and natural >>. I think this is just plain wrong: 1 7/8" = 47.6mm, which I'm guessing is the "wide" spacing used for supers by some people

Am I right?

Is there any significant difference between 35mm and 38mm (in a WBC)?

Thanks
David

 

[alanf]

I've just been downstairs with a tape measure because I found all this a bit confusing

I reckon the Hoffman frames I'm using create a distance between the centre of 2 adjacent frames of 35mm

I reckon the standard plastic "narrow" spacers I got from our biggest national supplier create a spacing of 38mm

Said suppliers advertise these plastic spacers on their web site as << Plastic Narrow Ends >> and label them << 1 7/8" spacing in red, blue, green, yellow and natural >>. I think this is just plain wrong: 1 7/8" = 47.6mm, which I'm guessing is the "wide" spacing used for supers by some people

Am I right?

"Wide Plastic Ends x 100
In natural only, recommended for super frame spacing at 1 7/8". Can be
staggered as wide metal ends."

"Plastic Narrow Ends Red x 100
1 7/8" spacing in red, blue, green, yellow and natural. Extremely durable with no sharp edges"

Somebody not proof reading?

Is there any significant difference between 35mm and 38mm (in a WBC)

38mm will be a tight fit for 10 frames.

 

[drstitson]

no castellations.

proper hoffmans, tightly packed with dummy. wide top bars and wide (manley type) bottom bars.

job done.

 

[E1M]

Spacings

Confused? You should be. I know I was.
We had this exact same issue a week or so ago, and, as new beekeepers, we felt silly. This is one area no book or mentor seems to tackle, and no wonder, it seems to be a matter of choice.
My concern began when I could fit 14, yes, 14 frames into a super!!!!
I use HOFFMAN in the brood and plastic in the supers.
I have been told that there are various sizes of plastic spacers.
Who knows what the answer is?

 

[oliver90owner]

There is only around 422mm inside a timber National box. Some simple maths might be the order of the day?

 

[Firefly]

Somebody not proof reading?

38mm will be a tight fit for 10 frames.

Yes - I concluded they just copy & pasted wrong

Good point - thank you. At 35mm it is possible to "tight fit" 11 in a WBC but, like others here, I have concluded it is not a good idea

(35*11)/38 = 10.13

mod(10.13, 10) = 0.13

0.13 * 35 = 4mm of spare space in theory. I might try it (without bees!) to see how it looks

David