Solar wax melter

[Mrs Soup]

I feel a bit silly, I was feeling flush so shelled out for a solar wax melter, but it doesn't work! Have tried it outside and in the conservatory but no luck.

Does anyone else have any experience with these things?

 

[susbees]

These beasts need direct sunlight. How's the weather been?

Assume the trays are metal, the glass is double glazed and there's appropriate insulation.

 

[Russel]

They can be quite effective but as susbees says they do need direct sunlight etc and facing the sun as much as poss.

 

[Adie]

Mine worked fine today in Lincolnshire; it can take a while to warm up though. I put mine out around 9 am and by about midday it was gettting rather hot and melting the wax. Make sure it is angled towards the sun (I place it with one end on two bricks) and move it during the day to keep it facing the right way. My solar extractor is a polystyrene box with a single sheet of glass on top; I use a black baking tray to support the wax. A key thing is to make sure that there are no gaps betwen the glass and the rim of the box.

 

[Winker]

I made my own, with a poly fish box and some glass. It works a treat if faced into the sun. Must submit a pucture latter today, you will laugh.

 

[The Apprentices]

I feel a bit silly, I was feeling flush so shelled out for a solar wax melter, but it doesn't work! Have tried it outside and in the conservatory but no luck.

Does anyone else have any experience with these things?

This time of year the suns power is wayning and the days to melt wax have been few and far between.

On an average day at around the mid 70's F the heat inside your wax extractor should be about a 100 degrees F above that of the outside temp to melt wax and for the best results on the poorer days try and keep the contents at the higher end of the pan by using gauze etc.

Beeswax starts to melt above 135 F.

For those who are making their own extracter in the future, they work at optimum if the plates of glass are wider than 20.00mm up to 25.00mm apart.

The best mine acheived this summer was 205F for 30 mins in North Yorkshire in July.

Other points to note are, that temps much above 240F for sustained periods can damage the waxes properties and it is then only fit for candles, not that we will have such problems like that here in the Uk.

 

[Mrs Soup]

Thank you all for your replies.

I have moved to melter to a better position in the conservatory, so it now catches more sun and added some insulation under the tray. However, the glass is about 6mm apart, and I guess there's nothing much I can do there.

 

[oliver90owner]

However, the glass is about 6mm apart,

Ideal, if the unit is a vacuum sealed jobbie (but somehow I doubt it is).

RAB

 

[yantabulla]

I think you should paint it black. Inside & out with a flat paint. I have mine on wheels to chase the angle of the sun.

Good luck.

Yanta

 

[The Apprentices]

Thank you all for your replies.

I have moved to melter to a better position in the conservatory, so it now catches more sun and added some insulation under the tray. However, the glass is about 6mm apart, and I guess there's nothing much I can do there.

To find out the optimum angle of the sun simply watch the shadows created by horizontals in your conservatory.

The 6.00mm gap in your glass panel will still work but not as efficiently as a larger gap, I have experimented with several units I have made to date and 25.00 warms up the insides the quickest and in our climate that's a bonus.

For those thinking about making their own, make sure that the glass is not the Pilkington K type because it idirectional and could prevent the rays from entering the box/slow them down, use clear glass.

Also remember when using A DG unit for a melter, the sizes given sometimes do not take into account the thickness of the glass but are an overall size given from front to back/ inside to outside.

This can result in an 8.00mm loss overall depending on the thickness of the glass used which is normally 4.00mm.

There does not need to be a vaccum between the frames and I would personally use single sheets because they can be replaced more easily if you damage a single layer.

If you can get the exact same sized pain or DG unit for free all the better.

 

[drstitson]

back in June I left the lid of a WOF poly nuc propped at 45 degree in full sun against a hive entrance after transferring nuc to full sized hive - next day the brace comb had melted and run off the lid. It was only 30 odd degrees and no glass involved!

 

[Winker]

However, the glass is about 6mm apart,

Ideal, if the unit is a vacuum sealed jobbie (but somehow I doubt it is).

RAB

No double glazed Unit is "vacuum sealed". All double glazed unit's, no matter how big the "air gap" in the middle are all made the same way. 2 pieces of glass the same size separated by a piece of spacer bar which is filled with desiccant. The unit is then sealed along its edge with a rubber sealant. To a certain extent some of the air in between the two pieces of glass is pushed out when the glass is place together, but it does not cause a vacuum.

The optimum space between the glass is 20mm for household double glazing. for heat insulation purposes 16mm is optimum size between the glass.. The 20mm gap gives 4mm added sound insulation.

But keep in mind that if heat can get in, heat can get out! Then there is the new addition of K glass to the market over the last few years. Now the K glass is only on one side of the unit, so it could easily be fitted the wrong way around. K glass makes the unit a more thermally efficient and reflects the heat back into the room its installed into if installed correctly!

So with all this in mind, the weak spot in the armour if you like is the thermal dynamics of the box itself. If the box is made up with 12-18mm wood, then there is no sense of having a double glazed unit on the top of wooden case, as the heat will be lost out the box through the wood. A 4mm piece of glass is as thermally efficient as a 12-18mm piece of wood. So realistically the double glazing serves no purpose, other than making the buyer feel better.

 

[The Apprentices]

back in June I left the lid of a WOF poly nuc propped at 45 degree in full sun against a hive entrance after transferring nuc to full sized hive - next day the brace comb had melted and run off the lid. It was only 30 odd degrees and no glass involved!

I don't dissbelieve what your saying doc but,

Beeswax melts at 64°C so the day in question must have been at least that, older wax melts slightly higher and higher propolis content slightly lower.

On the hotter days there is normally no wind, wndmills are US and expensive ornaments, however.

Unless the platform the wax was sitting on had an ellectic ellement inside I'm at a loss to how it melted at 30 odd degree C, must have been hotter that day?

 

[oliver90owner]

All double glazed unit's, no matter how big the "air gap" in the middle are all made the same way.

Please say most (never say 'all'), because....you are wrong, and probably not old enough to remember the first efforts at double glazing for domestic properties

Taken from Wiki: A product known as Vacuum Insulated Glass (VIG), or evacuated glazing, can be used to drastically reduce heat loss due to convection and conduction.[6] These VIG units have most of the air removed from the space between the panes, leaving a nearly-complete vacuum.

Many originally single glazed panes were replaced by the early variant of this, being of minimal thickness to fit the single glazed window rebates. Certainly not a perfect vacuum (thin glass would obviously bend under the forces, unless a very small unit), but nevertheless claimed (in their day) reduced acoustic transmission, as well as reduced convective and conductive losses. Not sure how good the modern equivalent is, but they do claim the insulation value similar to a 'thick insulated wall' I somehow feel they may be exaggerating a little, but that seems to be the order of things.

Many eventually leaked and misted on the inside, making them quite unsuitable as window glazing.

They do say 100mm is far better for acoustic insulation, but I would not be sure of the optimum. Certainly my secondary insulation (about 75mm inside the double glazed windows) makes a huge difference acoustically.

reflects the heat back into the room its installed into if installed correctly!

You mean it only transmits infra red of certain frequencies (or wavelength), just like the glass in a green house, only even more selective, so the thermal enegy remains within the room. Just like vacuum solar thermal collectors, then?

 

[drstitson]

presume just the action of direct sunlight coupled with the insulation properties of the poly beneath.

 

[Phil280]

Hi there.

Don't forget - if the comb was old - which it probably was if you are melting it down (unless it was faulty) - it is brown to dark brown. It would therefore heat up more due to higher absorption.

Greets
Phil

 

[Winker]

All double glazed unit's, no matter how big the "air gap" in the middle are all made the same way.

Please say most (never say 'all'), because....you are wrong, and probably not old enough to remember the first efforts at double glazing for domestic properties

Taken from Wiki: A product known as Vacuum Insulated Glass (VIG), or evacuated glazing, can be used to drastically reduce heat loss due to convection and conduction.[6] These VIG units have most of the air removed from the space between the panes, leaving a nearly-complete vacuum.

Many originally single glazed panes were replaced by the early variant of this, being of minimal thickness to fit the single glazed window rebates. Certainly not a perfect vacuum (thin glass would obviously bend under the forces, unless a very small unit), but nevertheless claimed (in their day) reduced acoustic transmission, as well as reduced convective and conductive losses. Not sure how good the modern equivalent is, but they do claim the insulation value similar to a 'thick insulated wall' I somehow feel they may be exaggerating a little, but that seems to be the order of things.

Many eventually leaked and misted on the inside, making them quite unsuitable as window glazing.

They do say 100mm is far better for acoustic insulation, but I would not be sure of the optimum. Certainly my secondary insulation (about 75mm inside the double glazed windows) makes a huge difference acoustically.

reflects the heat back into the room its installed into if installed correctly!

You mean it only transmits infra red of certain frequencies (or wavelength), just like the glass in a green house, only even more selective, so the thermal enegy remains within the room. Just like vacuum solar thermal collectors, then?

 

[The Apprentices]

No double glazed Unit is "vacuum sealed". All double glazed unit's, no matter how big the "air gap" in the middle are all made the same way. 2 pieces of glass the same size separated by a piece of spacer bar which is filled with desiccant. The unit is then sealed along its edge with a rubber sealant. To a certain extent some of the air in between the two pieces of glass is pushed out when the glass is place together, but it does not cause a vacuum.

The optimum space between the glass is 20mm for household double glazing. for heat insulation purposes 16mm is optimum size between the glass.. The 20mm gap gives 4mm added sound insulation.

But keep in mind that if heat can get in, heat can get out! Then there is the new addition of K glass to the market over the last few years. Now the K glass is only on one side of the unit, so it could easily be fitted the wrong way around. K glass makes the unit a more thermally efficient and reflects the heat back into the room its installed into if installed correctly!

So with all this in mind, the weak spot in the armour if you like is the thermal dynamics of the box itself. If the box is made up with 12-18mm wood, then there is no sense of having a double glazed unit on the top of wooden case, as the heat will be lost out the box through the wood. A 4mm piece of glass is as thermally efficient as a 12-18mm piece of wood. So realistically the double glazing serves no purpose, other than making the buyer feel better.

What your saying is true in part but not completely for your boff's like mwa or someone wanting the whole information which if given can save many hours wasted energy, pardon the pun.

IG's or insulated glass or known a double glazing is what you say, just two pieces of glass stuck together.

BUT, there are also several other types in common use today known as VIG's or evacuated glass cavities which the air has been replaced by gasses such as Nitrogen or others.

PK glass has a coating on one side which is normally marked or to an expert eye is of a different shade when peered through, and as I mentioned but moments ago, not as good if you don't know which side is which and your place it the wrong way round.

And to recap in case it got missed earlier, the overall thickness/distance given by manufacturers of any DG unit sometimes don't take into account the thickness of the glass itself. If your looking for an internal of 20.00 you might need 25.00mm pannels.

After extensive testing I found out that wax extractors work best with a 20.00mm to 25.00mm internal gap with a suitably insulated box, especially in the erratic English weather.

 

[Winker]

What your saying is true in part but not completely for your boff's like mwa or someone wanting the whole information which if given can save many hours wasted energy, pardon the pun.

IG's or insulated glass or known a double glazing is what you say, just two pieces of glass stuck together.

BUT, there are also several other types in common use today known as VIG's or evacuated glass cavities which the air has been replaced by gasses such as Nitrogen or others.

Argon filled Units should not be confused with a Vacuum. As the Air in these units is replaced with gasses.

Here is a nice artical on the air gap in double glazed units and the use of argon gas, and may put to bed some of the fairy tails surounding it. Get it Here

 

[Winker]

Here is a pic of my extractor. Sophistication at its best, Total cost £0.00