So, what now?

[fiat500bee]

The BS about fanaticism was the rumour I was talking about. Hear it all the time, very tiring.

I'm sorry to wear you out Steve. I'm keen to know what's wrong with that British Standard word. Admittedly it's an opinion born from very little knowledge of the subject. But I have read a fair amount about Amm. because I find it very interesting and inspiring that so many people wish to re-establish an ancient and native type of bee. But ultimately, based on even the most basic knowledge of genetics, evolution and the lifestyle of the honeybee, I think the project is misguided and can't possibly achieve a self-maintaining population of a defined sub-species of bee.

If beekeepers have to keep going back to a limited number breeders in isolated locations in order to maintain the species it seems a not much different scenario than that of acquiring queen bees of other types from other breeders.

I hope and think that my local bees have a decent amount of black bee "blood" in them, but I will trust them eventually to decide for themselves who their next parents will be. I would welcome you directing me to any relevant source of information that might change my unschooled view on this matter.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I've never bought a British queen that has out performed a European

How long gave you been keeping European queens? One or two seasons won’t give you a fair comparison.
I keep Buckfast and black....ish bees. In a good year the Buckies far outperform the locals. How often do we get a really good year though. This year has been appalling for honey. All major flows have been rained off. The orange bees have put heart and soul into making bees. The black ones have given me honey

 

[Speybee]

I'm sorry to wear you out Steve. I'm keen to know what's wrong with that British Standard word. Admittedly it's an opinion born from very little knowledge of the subject. But I have read a fair amount about Amm. because I find it very interesting and inspiring that so many people wish to re-establish an ancient and native type of bee. But ultimately, based on even the most basic knowledge of genetics, evolution and the lifestyle of the honeybee, I think the project is misguided and can't possibly achieve a self-maintaining population of a defined sub-species of bee.

If beekeepers have to keep going back to a limited number breeders in isolated locations in order to maintain the species it seems a not much different scenario than that of acquiring queen bees of other types from other breeders.

I hope and think that my local bees have a decent amount of black bee "blood" in them, but I will trust them eventually to decide for themselves who their next parents will be. I would welcome you directing me to any relevant source of information that might change my unschooled view on this matter.

Me too!

 

[Swarm]

Apologies to the Mods, I predicted the outcome earlier, which is why I said this thread was not the place as maybe these new members are unaware of forum history on this subject.
Should we start suggesting a ban on imports as a counter wind up?

 

[fiat500bee]

Apologies to the Mods, I predicted the outcome earlier, which is why I said this thread was not the place as maybe these new members are unaware of forum history on this subject.
Should we start suggesting a ban on imports as a counter wind up?

I'm not trying to "wind" anyone "up"......just venturing an opinion whilst giving full disclosure of my naivety. Perhaps a pointer to that forum history just mentioned would be a more constructive response than a guaranteed wasted attempt to "counter-wind" me? I'll use the "Search" function before anyone tells me that's what I should do.

 

[Swarm]

Best of luck finding the deleted posts lol

 

[Speybee]

Neither am I trying to wind anyone up either, but like my fellow neighbour I appreciate genuine advice not clouded by any agenda.
We just want to learn, that’s all and not be part of anyone’s daft feud!

 

[Speybee]

Best of luck finding the deleted posts lol

Neither am I trying to wind anyone up either, but like my fellow neighbour I appreciate genuine advice not clouded by any agenda.
We just want to learn, that’s all and not be part of anyone’s daft feud!

 

[fiat500bee]

Best of luck finding the deleted posts lol

Presumably there are posts from supporters and enthusiasts of the native bee which have not been deleted? It's positive information that I always look for.

 

[North End Bees]

If my quick fix was buying in a couple of mated queens to reduce a behaviour trait I was not happy with, then I don’t understand where the problem lies.

Just because you don't understand what the problem is, doesn't mean there isn't one.
Keeping bees isn't like keeping pet gerbils that stay in your house and affect only you.
The genetics of your bees affect all neighbouring stocks.
Just because you're happy requeening every year to stave off the F2 problem, doesn't mean neighbouring beekeepers are. Are you going to buy them new mated imported Queens every year because their locally bred queens have been affected by your imported stock?
You live as part of a community. It's not all about you.

 

[Speybee]

Just because you don't understand what the problem is, doesn't mean there isn't one.
Keeping bees isn't like keeping pet gerbils that stay in your house and affect only you.
The genetics of your bees affect all neighbouring stocks.
Just because you're happy requeening every year to stave off the F2 problem, doesn't mean neighbouring beekeepers are. Are you going to buy them new mated imported Queens every year because their locally bred queens have been affected by your imported stock?
You live as part of a community. It's not all about you.

Who are you to dictate what I should buy or not buy?
The genetics of neighbouring bad tempered bees also affect MY stocks, I AM being responsible in introducing a queen with a gentle trait as I will not tolerate bad tempered bees.
I am certainly not going to buy them replacement queens because if they had an iota of responsibility themselves, they would NOT tolerate bad tempered bees.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You live as part of a community. It's not all about you.

The same can be said of the AMM taliban

 

[Speybee]

Who are you to dictate what I should buy or not buy?
The genetics of neighbouring bad tempered bees also affect MY stocks, I AM being responsible in introducing a queen with a gentle trait as I will not tolerate bad tempered bees.
I am certainly not going to buy them replacement queens because if they had an iota of responsibility themselves, they would NOT tolerate bad tempered bees.

And are you not the individual who in a previous post on this thread stated that a British Bee does not outperform a European bee?
As a matter of interest do your bees come from the European republic of Essex?

 

[North End Bees]

Who are you to dictate what I should buy or not buy?

When did I dictate what you should or should not buy??
But requeening every year with a mated imported Queen isn't helping local genetics one iota. So everybody around has to do the same because of your bees' influence on the local genetics.
Looks like it's you who's dictating what everyone should buy or not buy.

 

[North End Bees]

And are you not the individual who in a previous post on this thread stated that a British Bee does not outperform a European bee?

No that wasn't me. Check the posts before making accusations.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Time out time I think
Less of the Ad hominem and more useful and informative discourse please

 

[Speybee]

When did I dictate what you should or should not buy??
But requeening every year with a mated imported Queen isn't helping local genetics one iota. So everybody around has to do the same because of your bees' influence on the local genetics.
Looks like it's you who's dictating what everyone should buy or not buy.

You are dictating what everyone should buy or not buy.
Firstly you indicate that I don’t understand what the problem is.
Secondly you are disparaging comparing my beekeeping to keeping a gerbil.
Thirdly you are patronising by insinuating my bee keeping practise of requeening is detrimental to my neighbours stocks.
Would you care to share where you source your queens from?

 

[Speybee]

No that wasn't me. Check the posts before making accusations.

Apologies someone has the exact same logo as yourself.
But the rest of my post remains

 

[Swarm]

Anyone who doesn't have an avatar has a letter. User name is below it but you should be a little more reasonable, IMO because you are only sounding argumentative, especially making your point with capitals.
Earlier on in the thread you made a comment about possibly it was you who were making them ratty.
I've looked at many colonies with beekeepers making the same claims and guess what? Most of them were perfectly well behaved.
It's easy to blame the bees.

 

[Speybee]

Anyone who doesn't have an avatar has a letter. User name is below it but you should be a little more reasonable, IMO because you are only sounding argumentative, especially making your point with capitals.
Earlier on in the thread you made a comment about possibly it was you who were making them ratty.
I've looked at many colonies with beekeepers making the same claims and guess what? Most of them were perfectly well behaved.
It's easy to blame the bees.

I have realised ref the logo letter and I apologised accordingly.
If I sound argumentative it’s because I don’t take too kindly regarding what to buy and where to buy....sounds a bit like a cozy cartel IMO!
Especially where Lottery funds are being disbursed into various schemes to promote AMM.