So, what now?

[Speybee]

I think it's to do with the 'pure' breeds having reduced genetic variability. A bit like some purebred dog pedigrees this results in some predictable traits such as behaviour. But then these pure breeds do mix with other breeds resulting in a vigorous mongrel - this vigor, in bees, can be expressed as aggression (along with possibly useful traits such as increased productivity and potentially disease resistance). Someone will point out that Buckfasts are not pure bred - but the same outcome is reported by many.

My bees to start off with, were local wee black type bees, and vicious with it....so I was not prepared to put up with their snash.
Over the last 2 years I have requeened with other breeds from a supplier in England as I want to get rid of ratty bees.

 

[Speybee]

Though the logic being discussed here would be that the rattiness will only start in your next (or maybe subsequent) generation of queens. (Forcing you to keep buying in to avoid this).

Logic or not, I am prepared to pay 30 odd quid for another queen bee as I am not prepared to put up with bad tempered bees especially as I have a neighbour that I need to consider.

 

[pargyle]

I think you may find that you have to take what comes at you, then weigh it and make up your own mind

Very often the people with the best advice on here deliver it with a directness ... you soon come to recognise where the good advice comes from and accept it for what it is rather than worrying about how it is delivered. Where's RAB these days ? Not seen him for a week or two ?

 

[fiat500bee]

I am putting my head above the parapet here as I have heard that some areas of Scotland are forbidding their membership from buying anything other than the black bee.

There appears to be a sort of fanaticism about those native bees in some quarters. I understand and to some extent I agree with the arguments that Amm. may be the bee best suited to Britain, and in Scotland and Ireland in particular. But there must also be a significant amount of inbreeding and backbreeding going on with queens and drones in order to "purify" and re-establish the sub-species. I think that in the interests of the bees' own welfare and suitability for a changing local environment it is far better that we value and cultivate the queens and drones that proliferate in our own localities.

If I was a member of an association which came up with that sort of totalitarianism I would be off like a shot.

 

[Speybee]

I think it's to do with the 'pure' breeds having reduced genetic variability. A bit like some purebred dog pedigrees this results in some predictable traits such as behaviour. But then these pure breeds do mix with other breeds resulting in a vigorous mongrel - this vigor, in bees, can be expressed as aggression (along with possibly useful traits such as increased productivity and potentially disease resistance). Someone will point out that Buckfasts are not pure bred - but the same outcome is reported by many.

The supplier has never touted that their queen bees are pure bred.
They supply Carnolians and Buckfasts and as with anything I buy, if I find the service and the product is good then I will return again for a repeat purchase.
Last year I bought 2 mated caged queens, this year 3 mated caged queens.
ALL of them accepted by the existing colonies, which for a novice hobbyist is good going.
I had a problem with one queen who appears to be a drone layer, I explained to to the supplier, and without me suggesting it, I was offered a replacement or a full refund, unlike a pal of mine further south in Scotland who has bought 2 sets of package bees from one supplier who are struggling and 3 caged mated queens who were rejected.
They did harp on at me that I paid too much for my queens, but then as my wee Mammy used to say, Quality over Quantity!

 

[Swarm]

Here we go again, the rumour mill in action again.

 

[Speybee]

There appears to be a sort of fanaticism about those native bees in some quarters. I understand and to some extent I agree with the arguments that Amm. may be the bee best suited to Britain, and in Scotland and Ireland in particular. But there must also be a significant amount of inbreeding and backbreeding going on with queens and drones in order to "purify" and re-establish the sub-species. I think that in the interests of the bees' own welfare and suitability for a changing local environment it is far better that we value and cultivate the queens and drones that proliferate in our own localities.

If I was a member of an association which came up with that sort of totalitarianism I would be off like a shot.

Yes same here, if anyone dictated to me what I could and could not buy....I would tell them to get raffled.

 

[Speybee]

Here we go again, the rumour mill in action again.

What do you mean?

 

[fiat500bee]

Yes same here, if anyone dictated to me what I could and could not buy....I would tell them to get raffled.

That's because you are more polite than me.

 

[Swarm]

I can't understand why you've needed to replace so many queens to be honest.

 

[Speybee]

There appears to be a sort of fanaticism about those native bees in some quarters. I understand and to some extent I agree with the arguments that Amm. may be the bee best suited to Britain, and in Scotland and Ireland in particular. But there must also be a significant amount of inbreeding and backbreeding going on with queens and drones in order to "purify" and re-establish the sub-species. I think that in the interests of the bees' own welfare and suitability for a changing local environment it is far better that we value and cultivate the queens and drones that proliferate in our own localities.

If I was a member of an association which came up with that sort of totalitarianism I would be off like a shot.

Sometimes what is supplied locally can have some ratty traits as I discovered so I have bought elsewhere in this case.

 

[Swarm]

Buying in loads of queens, complaining about 'ratty' bees, buying in more and on and on ..... lol

 

[Speybee]

Buying in loads of queens, complaining about 'ratty' bees, buying in more and on and on ..... lol

I have bought 5 queens over a 2 year period, how is that a rumour?
Ratty traits, that’s why I requeened as I don’t like dealing with ratty traits in bees

 

[Swarm]

Ever considered working with what you have to improve local traits?
Far more worthy cause than a quick fix.

 

[fiat500bee]

Sometimes what is supplied locally can have some ratty traits as I discovered so I have bought elsewhere in this case.

I had heard that and approached my recent acquisition of a nuc of local bees with trepidation. Particularly so when I realised very quickly that they seemed to have twice the energy my Buckfasts in terms of colony expansion and rate of foraging. But with advice regarding smoke use followed from this forum and repeated experience in handling them I'm now finding they hardly care that I'm there when I open the hive.

 

[Swarm]

I have bought 5 queens over a 2 year period, how is that a rumour?
Ratty traits, that’s why I requeened as I don’t like dealing with ratty traits in bees

The BS about fanaticism was the rumour I was talking about. Hear it all the time, very tiring.

 

[Speybee]

I had heard that and approached my recent acquisition of a nuc of local bees with trepidation. Particularly so when I realised very quickly that they seemed to have twice the energy my Buckfasts in terms of colony expansion and rate of foraging. But with advice regarding smoke use followed from this forum and repeated experience in handling them I'm now finding they hardly care that I'm there when I open the hive.

My 2 original Nucs were fine, but the increase I made with my own bees resulted in 2 ratty hives.
I am not prepared to put up with this trait and so I bought in mated caged queens from England, and so far I have been happy with them.

 

[Speybee]

The BS about fanaticism was the rumour I was talking about. Hear it all the time, very tiring.

Sincere apologies, I had misunderstood you.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

I've never bought a British queen that has out performed a European

 

[Speybee]

Ever considered working with what you have to improve local traits?
Far more worthy cause than a quick fix.

I tried to work with what I had when making increase.
It did not work out so why continue trying to push treacle up a hill?
If my quick fix was buying in a couple of mated queens to reduce a behaviour trait I was not happy with, then I don’t understand where the problem lies.
I am sure my gentle drones will be quite content to party with any local queens on their maiden flight.