So, what now?

[Swarm]

Some probably object to being labelled a fanatic as well and now part of a cosy cartel, lol.

 

[Speybee]

Some probably object to being labelled a fanatic as well and now part of a cosy cartel, lol.

Nite nite now

 

[BugsInABox]

My 2 original Nucs were fine, but the increase I made with my own bees resulted in 2 ratty hives.
I am not prepared to put up with this trait and so I bought in mated caged queens from England, and so far I have been happy with them.

It likely wasn’t a trait but hybrid vigour.

 

[BugsInABox]

Who are you to dictate what I should buy or not buy?
The genetics of neighbouring bad tempered bees also affect MY stocks, I AM being responsible in introducing a queen with a gentle trait as I will not tolerate bad tempered bees.
I am certainly not going to buy them replacement queens because if they had an iota of responsibility themselves, they would NOT tolerate bad tempered bees.

That could be true, but it’s possible (?probable) the bees you expanded from your original nukes were ratty due to F2 (hybrid) vigour and not a ratty trait in your neighbours’ bees. If this is true then your neighbours are also now dealing with the same F2 vigour due to the F1(ish) drones you bring in. In bees this hybrid vigour can result in aggression - along potentially with some helpful traits like increased productivity.
The two points of view are:
A: ratty traits in local bees
B: local bees fine but yours get ratty when hybridising.
Either (or both) could be true, but managing queen stock with an eye to only A results in an endless merry-go-round as imported stock hybridise to a ratty vigorous stock over and over.
You’ve correctly pointed towards genetics & traits - but you can’t really manage for traits like aggression till you get past your F2 generation. Meanwhile any attempts by your neighbours to do this are hampered by your drones producing F2 queens in their stock.
But it’s true we can all do as we please regardless.

 

[Erichalfbee]

JBM has asked you politely
Any more personal attacks and I shall simply delete the post.
Please play nicely.

 

[elainemary]

1 There's an intriguing info. gap between hiving the nuc and swarming: did you inspect every seven days, what did you discover and what did you do?

2 Bees need fuel - nectar or syrup - to draw comb and I reckon they built more rapidly on the syrup than you expected, swarmed and then hit the buffers when the feed was gone and the flow over. Desertion of the surplus space is natural: no flow and fewer bees in the box.

It is difficult for a novice to match colony development to nectar flows and space, but where I am we had a very good spring flow on which bees built strongly, a May/June drought and nectar dearth (bees sat doing nothing), a middling main flow and a nothing since. Quite a number of mine were on triple brood by May, most others on double and I lost about four swarms out of eighty colonies. What were the flows like where you are?

3 Super space will not dissuade bees from swarming, presuming you use a QX. Brood space is the vital element early on (though super space is still needed) but if the beekeeper lets the queen run out of laying space the swarm switch is flicked on and there's no way to switch it off.

Consider getting rid of the super: it's of no use now and although it's partially drawn you don't say whether there's honey or syrup in the combs. If there is, extract it and feed it back to the bees. Store the box in a mouse-proof and dry place until next spring.

You've understood that one brood box is not enough for a prolific queen (what was the type of queen supplied?) and double brood - space - will help reduce the swarming impulse next season, as will the young queen you have (what type of queen is in there now?). Suggestion: if you were to put the bottom brood box on top and feed syrup, what would be the result?

Reading a colony is acquired through instinct and observation and as the hours spent by a one-hive owner are very slight - twenty hours a season? - by about year five you'll have the hang of it. Until then mistakes will accelerate your learning, not books nor the multitude of advice that flocks to your ears; though these are meant well they may confuse, so a good option is to work out your own plan and put that into action; if it's a total cock-up, at least you own it and will learn from the disaster.

Yes, your colony does have varroa and it's a risky strategy at your stage of the game to pretend that it's not a problem. If this sole colony dies in winter from lack of healthy winter bees you will not only lose the £240 you paid for the nuc, but back to square one: pay out again next May.

First memo: run two colonies next year, because you're unlikely to lose both in winter and can split the survivor in summer. Second memo: treat for varroa; the time for indulging all the variety of fancy alternatives lies far into your beekeeping future.

Good advice here, I’m in my 4th season of beekeeping, have 10 colonies and 3 Nucs for overwintering in 3 apiaries. All v different situations: top of the Pennines near the heather & 2 in the valley near balsam, gardens etc. I’ve learnt much of what you’ve said by getting stuck in, expanding and comparing colonies to each other, trying new techniques, putting the hours in & learning from mistakes as well as reading lots of books, attending conferences, talks and listening to lots of beekeepers. Firm believer of learning by doing and education.
Here’s some stats I picked up from a recent webinar with 2 commercial NDB beekeepers who run 150 colonies to help understand the likelihood of swarming, based on their experience:
c4% of colonies with this years queen (ie not over wintered yet) swarm
c40% of colonies with a queen in her second season ie over wintered once, will swarm
The latter reduces to c6% if a prolific queen and a second brood box is added at the right time
Ie compression swarming is a big factor

So we can help prevent swarming by reading the bees (looking for arch of honey va wall to wall brood etc) and working with them, giving them the space they need.

Thanks for everyone’s contributions, just started to take part in the forum & another great resource to learn from.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I think you may find that you have to take what comes at you, then weigh it and make up your own mind

That's a pretty good assessment. It shouldn't take long to recognise what's sensible input and what's utter tripe, along with a broad spectrum in between. Some books are worth reading and some are regurgitated crap. For what it's worth the original Dave Cushman site represented a fountain of knowledge that formed an excellent reference point. Google will be useful.

 

[Patrick1]

If you are going to go down the bought in breeds route make sure you do a bit of reading about F1/Gen2nd/3rd hybrid vigour (which can result in very marked aggression) first. If you've got used to lovely gentle Buckfasts as a beginner this could be quite a shock.

I understand the logic but it does depend on your beekeeping practices as to the temperament of your bees, I am on my third generation Italian bees this year, they are still as calm as the first lot. As I said in another thread I have bred a lot of my own queens from imported breeders. What we do not have control of is other peoples bees or beekeeping ideas.
And before anyone starts banging on about imported bees lets not forget Bro Adams and teh huge number of imported bees he used to establish the now famous and reliable Buckfast.

 

[Patrick1]

If every beekeeper were to be honest about the temperament of his colonies and forthrightly deal with those with unacceptable traits, it would be an enormous help. Unfortunately, how often do we hear the old chestnut
"I should do something about them but they are soooo productive."
Which usually translates as I'm scared of these bees and avoid inspections, I dress up like a cocoon to take the honey off.
Share and share alike, every beekeeper in the vicinity gets to feel the pain.

Less inspections are good, most novices inspect too often, or inspect without a plan or enough kit to do the job.

 

[Patrick1]

From what I have read, some of the bigger operations for queen production anything but a varied gene-pool. By definition, if they are breeding pure "races" or types of bees then they are in-breeding.

I think that is a valid point, I also think that more beekeepers should take the time to mark say 3 colonies drones ( 200 each ) with different colours inspect every two weeks then tell me you think inbreeding is an issue.

 

[Arfermo]

I can't understand why you've needed to replace so many queens to be honest.

Nor me. Money to burn?

 

[madasafish]

I raise my own queens - not particularly well I have to admit - and have done so for 4+ years..

Now our local bee population are largely horrible being bad tempered, swarm annually and don't produce much honey. I buy in queens every three years - and raise queens from them - about 15 or so a year. After 2 years of doing this, most of the colonies lose most of the good attributes of my original purchases and I have to start again.

I find if I requeen each year, the number of swarms I have is minimal - as long as I give enough space - but using jumbo langs , more space is just more supers. (I think having to lift brood boxes to inspect is a Bad Thing - and my aged body agrees.)

If a queen gives exceptional results, I may keep her two years.. but after that I find vigour falls off.

Honey yields are heavily weather dependent, and heavily management dependent . If you start the year with a brood box half full of honey, don't be surprised if yields are poor. More bees = more honey - all things being equal - so early Spring hive management is crucial...I take off combs full of honey leaving only one per hive.. (But if the weather turns into a prolonged bad spell, return some honey frames). I can do nothing about the weather but a lot about my management.

I run my 7 full hives and 4-6 nucs to make honey and make a small profit. I only spend money when there is a need or advantage to be gained. (I was not educated in Aberdeen without becoming mean ). Hive management is key to success or failure..

I can do nothing about the local bee population. Most locals are not part of any bee association : those I help I do encourage to join... So a grand changing of local bees is beyond my capabilities. I know no experienced BBKA members within a 3 mile radius - which covers our valley.

 

[fenster]

Very often the people with the best advice on here deliver it with a directness ... you soon come to recognise where the good advice comes from and accept it for what it is rather than worrying about how it is delivered. Where's RAB these days ? Not seen him for a week or two ?

Clearly this thread parted from the OP's (my) topic pretty quickly - as forums do - but I got good advice politely given before it did.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

Clearly this thread parted from the OP's (my) topic pretty quickly - as forums do - but I got good advice politely given before it did.

Thank goodness for that