Slow progress.

[Biscuit7991]

Hello all. Sorry if I've done this wrong; I don't really use forums much.
Straight to the point now, I have had my bees for around a month now and they seem to be doing fine. They fly in and out regularly and I can see plenty of pollen both in the hive and on the bees. But when I inspect the hive I notice that they have only really moved out to two of the new frames.
I got them in a five frame travel box and have moved the five original frames into a National Hive. The queen has been seen twice, plus there is sealed brood and quite a few drone cells as well as drones themselves.
My question is: should they be expanding out into the hive quicker or am I just being an over-concerned newbee?

Any help would be great. Thanks to you all.

 

[madasafish]

Bees take 3 weeks from an egg to worker.. so initial progress is bound to be slow..

I have found keeping bees, you have to work at their rate: which requires patience...

 

[oliver90owner]

Can't tell.

It seems thay you may have just put them in a full hive with 6/7 frames of foundation? Not good. Particularly if the weather has not been kind.

Quality of the queen may be questionable as I would not expect any drone brood to be laid so soon.

There is already a thread running on how best to get small colonies to increase. May be more. It is a common problem for some.

 

[Biscuit7991]

Thanks for the quick response. To answer your question, yes I put the five frames in a brood box with six new frames and a dummy board. When I got the nuc I believe that the drone cells were already there plus they seem to be sticking to one frame?
Thanks again.

 

[Dishmop]

Giving them a lot of room to increase doesnt work as you might think it does.
There may be enough bees to work the frames they already had but not enough to work double that amount of frames......

 

[oliver90owner]

A few questions.

Where is the dummy board positioned in the hive?

Is there a gaping hole in the crownboard?

Any insulation above?

Was this a nuc which had just been made up and a fresh mated queen introduced. I suspect that was the case. Likely not that much brood at delivery? I don't expect you can answer that, but you may understand what I mean if you have read what a good nuc should be comprised of.

The increase in numbers you are hoping for will (should) accelerate, as more house bees become available and in a 'comfotable'brood nest area.

 

[beenovice]

Thanks for the quick response. To answer your question, yes I put the five frames in a brood box with six new frames and a dummy board. When I got the nuc I believe that the drone cells were already there plus they seem to be sticking to one frame?
Thanks again.

You need to close down the unused space. Bees need warmth to be able to draw out the wax foundation. Placing a frame of foundation is not closing down space.
If I were you I would look through the hive to see where the brood and stores are. If they are on say 5 frames, then give them 1 or 2 frames of foundation ( maybe one either side unless all 5 are against one of the walls. Then fill the empty space with kingspan insulation or similar. Or close the space off with a divider board.
Check every week or 10 days, and if the bees have moved onto the foundation, give them another frame until you have all frames in

 

[Biscuit7991]

A few questions.

Where is the dummy board positioned in the hive?

Is there a gaping hole in the crownboard?

Any insulation above?

Was this a nuc which had just been made up and a fresh mated queen introduced. I suspect that was the case. Likely not that much brood at delivery? I don't expect you can answer that, but you may understand what I mean if you have read what a good nuc should be comprised of.

The increase in numbers you are hoping for will (should) accelerate, as more house bees become available and in a 'comfotable'brood nest area.

The dummy board is at the outer frame, there are porter bee escapes in the crownboard, and then I just have the roof on top of that. I think this was a nuc that was freshly made and there wasn't much brood; only a about a frame of brood if I remember rightly.

 

[oliver90owner]

Care to name the supplier? You are covered by your comment 'if I remember rightly'. Should have been more brood than that,especially if you mean brood on only one frame.

A divider would be better than a dummy as no heat would be lost over and around it and insulation could be placed behind it to help even more (shouldn't really need it in June but can't guarantee UK weather)

On OMF? Closing it temporarily might help such a weak colony. But do not allow detritus to build up on the inspection board.

Close those crownboard holes and insulate over. Warmth from the colony will be lost by convection draughts. Only one frame of foundation seems more pertinent, than the usual two at a time, for such a weak colony.

You did not seem to get good value, but from a distance on your information provided, I can only guess. Possible notification to the vendor of your findings might be good just in case things were actually to get worse.

Lastly, are stores adequate? Feed if not.

RAB

 

[Biscuit7991]

Sorry, I checked my records and there was more than one frame of sealed brood; just not a lot of visible larvae. I got the bees from my local association and they get them from mid Wales every year. Every time I've inspected them they have had both sealed and unsealed honey as well as plenty of pollen so stores are good. The weather here hasn't been great the past few weeks; quite cold in the mornings and it hasn't been too dry lately. I'll look into getting a divider soon and I'll close the omf for a while. Thanks for the advice, I'll keep my eye on them and hopefully they will get stronger soon.

 

[johnnie1uk]

You say "Every time I've inspected them "
From what ive learnt, it doesn't help if you keep disturbing them, You know you have a queen and shes laying, so let them bee, so that they can get on with what they do naturally.
I know there is a great temptation to see how they are getting on, but it doesn't help them to keep smokin em and pullin there house around.

 

[sharonh]

As others have said, you have given way too much space. Small colony needs warmth & with too much space, they would be using all their energy keeping the temp right so wouldn't have the energy for drawing out all them additional frames.
When they have the 5 they are on covered, then add just two more, one each side of what they have. When they are fully drawn out and covered, do same again.
Give a weak 1:1 syrup to give them the energy to draw out the new frames, little and often as you don't want them storing it blocking the laying space.
Keep dummy board behind the frames with kingspan insulation or similar. If you haven't any, use some towels, just not ones treated with fabric softener as they might not like the smell. Keeping them warm will help them conserve that energy and put it into drawing frames out. Best of luck with them & enjoy.


Love Beekeeping <3

 

[oliver90owner]

I am wondering (because I certainly don't know) if some of that capped brood was lost and just has not been cleared out. The bees can only cover so much brood and, if too cold, they may have not been able to cover it all. Only guessing here as they should really be expanding the brood nest by now as they are wellinto the second brood cycle since you got them.

Those drones should have emerged by now and that is setting the alarm bells ringing. I might be wrong, so please tell us whether they have emerged or are dead.

Otherwise if you have made them more cosy and do not feed if there is already plenty of stores, they will concentrate on brooding more bees, which is what you want; not acres of needless drawn frames.

RAB

 

[Biscuit7991]

Hello, Just to update you and to get your opinions; I went outside today to find a swarm of bees waiting for me. Since making the hive warmer there has been a vast increase in the amount of new bees there (although they still have not spread out much but they have a bit) and I now seem to have double the amount of bees with one colony in the hive and one in a swarm. I have collected the swarm and personally I am quite pleased as I now have two colonies. But my question now is, "is there something wrong?". Should they have swarmed so soon? It has only been a week since it looked like they were going to die! Bare in mind I have only had them for about five weeks now and they started out in a five frame travel box.

Any ideas as to why this might have happened would be great. Thanks again!

 

[REDWOOD]

It's gone swarm crazy this year, there have been lots of reports of nucs going into swarm mode before they have built up to a good size.

 

[Biscuit7991]

Okay, thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I'm quite happy to have two colonies now

 

[alanf]

I went outside today to find a swarm of bees waiting for me... I have collected the swarm and personally I am quite pleased as I now have two colonies...Should they have swarmed so soon? It has only been a week since it looked like they were going to die!...

What makes you think the swarm was from your box? Is it the marked queen? Are there lots of queen cells in the first hive? If not, it's probably a swarm from some neighbour, not always obvious how close other bees are. Not unusual for swarms to seek out areas where there are other bees, they often settle near existing apiaries or move into spare boxes nearby.

 

[Biscuit7991]

The original hive has about five queen cells inside and I saw the swarm originate from my hive.

 

[enrico]

Hope you have got rid of all but one other queen cell! Otherwise you may have four other hives soon!