Shaking Out a Hive

[DRam]

Hello,

We have a colony who were problematic last year, despite our best efforts they never really built up their numbers. They came through winter OK, but now appear to be queenless. We did not see any new brood a couple of weeks ago and have put in test frames with eggs twice now, and they have failed to raise a queen cell. We have been through the frames and have not seen a queen, but we are not great generally great at spotting them.

On a different site we have a NUC which is getting close to outgrowing the box. The queen in it is huge, really unmissable. We want to move this NUC into a hive at the apiary where the failing colony are.

I don't want to try combining colonies, as that has gone badly in the past, and it has been suggested that we should site the new colony and then shake the bees from the failing colony out about 50 metres away and some will make their way back and beg themselves into the new colony. It was suggested that if the failing colony thinks they have a queen then uniting them won't work, and this will solve that.

My question is, do we site the new hive beside the old one or on the exact same spot, and should the entrance face the same way or in a different direction?

Any other suggestions?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

shake them out into an overgrown area (long grass, brambles whatever) remove all evidence of the hive (including the stand if you can) and don't put anything there for a day or two, by that time they will have begged their way into other hives and you can reuse the site

 

[pargyle]

If you have put a test frame in there and they have not attempted to raise a new queen the the likelihood is that there IS a queen in there. If you shake them out and there is a queen in there the odds are that they will just cluster around the queen.

I would try another test frame (or just a section of comb with eggs grafted into a frame). If you don't see queen cells in a few days and you still can't spot the queen perhaps seive them through a queen excluder - if you are going to tip them out you might as well be sure. You will need some extra kit to do it .. two more brood boxes.

Clear a few frames of bees from the hive and put the empty frames in another brood box alongside your hive. I'd sit this brood box on a board with no entrance. Put a queen excluder on top and then another empty brood box then shake each frame into the top brood box. Have your smoker going and smoke them to drive them down through the queen excluder into the bottom box.

It's not a fun job but at least at the end you will know if you have a queen and can mark her or cage her for a replacement to be purchased. Or if definitely there is no queen there you have done most of the work ready to tip them out ...

 

[DRam]

Thank you for the replies.

I'll definitely sieve them through an excluder, that is a really good idea.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you have put a test frame in there and they have not attempted to raise a new queen the the likelihood is that there IS a queen in there

but just as likely that there isn't, the only positive result with a test frame is if they make QCs otherwise you have established nothing

If you shake them out and there is a queen in there the odds are that they will just cluster around the queen.

I've done it quite a few times in a situation as described, if there is a queen in there, you may find a sorry handful clustered around her, but the rest will look for better digs
This is particularly true if you shake them into the long grass