Setting up a 3-frame mating nuc

[boywonder]

Hi - I know I should have planned this properly, but I thought it would come to me easily (but it is not). Situation:

- I have some Queen cells - produced from grafting into Nicot cups - due to emerge on Thursday (more next week)
- to avoid the risk of an early emergence playing havoc, roller cages have been placed over the (Thursday-emerging) cells
- I have BS 3/6 frame poly nucs available, and my intention is to run these with the divider - effectively creating a box in each case containing two 3-frame mating nucs

I have the full gamut of artifacts to donate to any nuc, including bees, frames with food, emerging brood etc. Indeed, I also have two nucs already established in 6-frame format, both of which are currently queenless; one of which was the starter colony for the grafts, so is replete with young bees and emerging brood..... Anyhow, the point is basically that I have the raw materials.

Where I am lacking is a cogent plan as to how to successfully populate these 3-frame nucs; and one which is going to result in maximum chance of the virgin Queens being graciously accepted.

One obvious thing (and would have been doubly apparent had I re-referenced the Beecraft series I am taking my steer from) is to get the roller cages installed into the nucs BEFORE the Queen emerges (so I need to get a wiggle-on). Basically I need to make these nucs up today.

What I am wondering is how best to set up the frames/bees, such that I mimimise the risk of failure. Any advice - or pointers to other articles which talk specifically to the setup of a 3-frame mating nuc - would be much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[elainemary]

Hi - I know I should have planned this properly, but I thought it would come to me easily (but it is not). Situation:

- I have some Queen cells - produced from grafting into Nicot cups - due to emerge on Thursday (more next week)
- to avoid the risk of an early emergence playing havoc, roller cages have been placed over the (Thursday-emerging) cells
- I have BS 3/6 frame poly nucs available, and my intention is to run these with the divider - effectively creating a box in each case containing two 3-frame mating nucs

I have the full gamut of artifacts to donate to any nuc, including bees, frames with food, emerging brood etc. Indeed, I also have two nucs already established in 6-frame format, both of which are currently queenless; one of which was the starter colony for the grafts, so is replete with young bees and emerging brood..... Anyhow, the point is basically that I have the raw materials.

Where I am lacking is a cogent plan as to how to successfully populate these 3-frame nucs; and one which is going to result in maximum chance of the virgin Queens being graciously accepted.

One obvious thing (and would have been doubly apparent had I re-referenced the Beecraft series I am taking my steer from) is to get the roller cages installed into the nucs BEFORE the Queen emerges (so I need to get a wiggle-on). Basically I need to make these nucs up today.

What I am wondering is how best to set up the frames/bees, such that I mimimise the risk of failure. Any advice - or pointers to other articles which talk specifically to the setup of a 3-frame mating nuc - would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Hi, also did this for the first time this year

It’s good to check virgin queens after emergence (are her wings and legs all ok, is she a good size?). I had a couple of cells in my cell raiser where the queen was dead inside or didn’t develop further than a pupal stage, so think it’s good to wait til the virgins emerge in their roller cages before making up a Nuc, just increases the chance of success

Virgins have no / very little pheromone for the first 2 days after emergence so very easily accepted by bees (especially nurse bees ie lightly tap off the foragers) when making up a Nuc.

This year I made 3 frame Nucs up from bees from the same hive as the virgins came from. Also made 3 frame Nucs from nurse bees from different hives.

I put the virgins in a cage with a plug of my own honey mixed with icing sugar to a stiff paste. Virgins were eaten out within a few hours of placing into 3 frame Nucs. I quickly removed the cages the following day after introduction.

I made the 3 frame Nucs up with a frame of emerging brood, a frame of pollen and a frame of stores. Earliest the queens were mated and laying was 11 days. All mated successfully.

Hope this helps. Know it can be daunting when it’s the first time, just crack on & try, you’ve got all the material for it to be a success

Elaine

 

[boywonder]

Thanks Elaine. I appreciate you explaining your approach and experiences.

In spite of the VQs having no/limited pheremone, I have read some horror stories about them getting balled on introduction. I was intending to plug the roller cages containing already emerged Queens (as you have done), but I think even less risky is the introduction of the 'soon-to-emerge' cell.

I think maybe (in terms of acceptance) the nurse bees thing is an interesting and important point, when making up the nuc.

I had considered whether, having taken my frames and bees I would be wise (not that I have a chance now, with this first batch) to give them a couple of days of queenlessness before introducing a cell (or a VQ), and whether that was important/relevant in these situations. In the case of an Apidea, you just chuck a cupful of young bees in with the cell, and leave them to get on with it. Hmmm

 

[drdrday]

Hmmm

I echo your 'hmmmm'
I'm trying my hand a queen rearing for the first time this year, and it definitely gives you plenty to consider! I have 7 beautifully sealed (as of yesterday) queen cells. The plan had been to make up mini mating hives with younger bees tomorrow, leaving them shut in with fondant so that they can start drawing comb. I'd then transfer a queen cell in on Saturday, with them predicted to emerge next Tuesday.
I liked the idea of using mini mating hives because they only need a cupful of bees (won't affect my big production hives too much), and also because I thought it would be easier to introduce a cell rather than a VQ. Transferring the cells on day 13 I thought would give me plenty of time before they emerged so that there was no risk of multiple queens causing havoc running around the same colony.
However, I'm now second guessing myself, and thinking of leaving the queens in roller cages until I can check they're ok, and then transfer them to the mating hives. Gives the benefit of being able to ensure the queens are fully formed before you put them in the mating hives, but has a possible risk of problems with acceptance.
I've got four mini mating hives, so I'm tempted to hedge my bets and put two in as queen cells and two in as VQs.

 

[Swarm]

Take a frame of sealed/emerging brood and the nurse bees on them (placed above an excluder first?) a frame of stores and a comb to set up the nuc.
Do something else for a while before moving the nuc to its intended spot. Open the roller cage and run her straight onto one of the combs, close up and check them in ten days/two weeks.

 

[elainemary]

I echo your 'hmmmm'
I'm trying my hand a queen rearing for the first time this year, and it definitely gives you plenty to consider! I have 7 beautifully sealed (as of yesterday) queen cells. The plan had been to make up mini mating hives with younger bees tomorrow, leaving them shut in with fondant so that they can start drawing comb. I'd then transfer a queen cell in on Saturday, with them predicted to emerge next Tuesday.
I liked the idea of using mini mating hives because they only need a cupful of bees (won't affect my big production hives too much), and also because I thought it would be easier to introduce a cell rather than a VQ. Transferring the cells on day 13 I thought would give me plenty of time before they emerged so that there was no risk of multiple queens causing havoc running around the same colony.
However, I'm now second guessing myself, and thinking of leaving the queens in roller cages until I can check they're ok, and then transfer them to the mating hives. Gives the benefit of being able to ensure the queens are fully formed before you put them in the mating hives, but has a possible risk of problems with acceptance.
I've got four mini mating hives, so I'm tempted to hedge my bets and put two in as queen cells and two in as VQs.

Yes I procrastinated about this too & in the end tried both ways. Juries out, with introducing virgin queens winning over sealed cells. If I’d put 2 of my sealed cells into my mating Nucs they wouldn’t have emerged (dead pupa and dead queen) and I would have been none the wiser til test comb stage or worse laying workers.

As Steve (Swarm) has said you can run a virgin straight in without putting in a cage as she hasn’t developed any pheromones til 2 days old. I decided as my first time not to take any ‘risks’ at all and put in a cage. I’d try running in next year

 

[elainemary]

Thanks Elaine. I appreciate you explaining your approach and experiences.

In spite of the VQs having no/limited pheremone, I have read some horror stories about them getting balled on introduction. I was intending to plug the roller cages containing already emerged Queens (as you have done), but I think even less risky is the introduction of the 'soon-to-emerge' cell.

I think maybe (in terms of acceptance) the nurse bees thing is an interesting and important point, when making up the nuc.

I had considered whether, having taken my frames and bees I would be wise (not that I have a chance now, with this first batch) to give them a couple of days of queenlessness before introducing a cell (or a VQ), and whether that was important/relevant in these situations. In the case of an Apidea, you just chuck a cupful of young bees in with the cell, and leave them to get on with it. Hmmm

I didn’t give any queenlessness time. Simply made up the Nucs with brood from the hive that had generated the virgins. Did the same with nurse bees from another hive. As she was in a cage this slows the introduction and worked well for me