Sensible purchase of equipment

[Boston Bees]

I wonder if a "double shallow" frame size would work.

It would work in the same way that single brood, 14x12 and double brood work, in that it would be too large for some colonies, about the right size for some colonies, and too small for other colonies. There's no right answer to what the correct size of frame is, which is why all these frame sizes persist, alongside Langstroth, Layens, Warre etc. If you manage it correctly, it will be fine.

PS: Bees don't make a huge mess between the two layers of a double brood box, so I don't see why that should be an issue.

 

[Swarm]

Absence of frame lugs in that area may encourage a bit of brace.

 

[Murox]

I wonder if a "double shallow" frame size would work. Would be in between national and 14x12 brood frame size.
Only have to buy 1 size box, but number of frames to inspect would be like running a regular brood+supers setup. Only thing I'm not sure of is how much of a mess the bees would make in the frame rails space between the 2 shallows used as a brood box.

As others have intimated, respect bee space and manage the hive size appropriately, and it makes little difference to the bees. The various frame sizes came about /were developed to provide answers to various management issues and to maximise our ability to extract as much honey per hive as possible. Same size frames throughout have obvious benefits and drawbacks. I suggest you have a good read and learn about why and where the Layens hive and system came about, similarly why and where the Rose system got developed and of course why the rest of the world sticks mainly with Langstroth.

 

[The Poot]

I was surprised when visiting a honey farm that they used very shallow supers - about two thirds the depth of nationals. When I questioned this I was told it was mainly to provide less weight per box for the staff to deal with.
I would expect the smaller boxes to be fully sealed and extractable more quickly and thus provide saleable honey earlier in the season. It would also probably avoid a huge volume to be extracted at the end of Summer. Only guessing on my part though.

 

[Midget Gem]

Doesn't the Rose hive use the same size boxes throughout? A bit bigger than a national super but probably doesn't make that much difference.

 

[Boston Bees]

Doesn't the Rose hive use the same size boxes throughout? A bit bigger than a national super but probably doesn't make that much difference.

Yes, but then you only have one equipment supplier, and you also can't get poly versions.

 

[Swarm]

Weight being the issue, it's always possible to use national deeps and dummy them to a manageable size?

My landlord is keen to try this next year with no excluder.

 

[understanding_bees]

Doesn't the Rose hive use the same size boxes throughout? A bit bigger than a national super but probably doesn't make that much difference.

The Rose hive system does not specify a box size. The emphasis of the Rose system is to use just one size of boxes and frames. The choice of what size box is up to each beekeeper and their individual circumstances.

 

[Antipodes]

The Rose hive system does not specify a box size. The emphasis of the Rose system is to use just one size of boxes and frames. The choice of what size box is up to each beekeeper and their individual circumstances.

In Tasmania we generally use 144 mm boxes on the entire hive and no excluders. This has been done here for a very long time....I guess calling it the One Size Box system or OSB sounds good.

 

[Murox]

The Rose hive SYSTEM is more than the box and frame size. The Layens SYSTEM is more than the frame and resultant box size. The Warre SYSTEM is more than box and frame size. They all have particular features and management methodologies according to their raison d'être .

 

[Boston Bees]

The Rose hive SYSTEM is more than the box and frame size. The Layens SYSTEM is more than the frame and resultant box size. The Warre SYSTEM is more than box and frame size. They all have particular features and management methodologies according to their raison d'être .

Indeed. Just using one size of box (even if they are Rose Hive boxes) doesn't at all mean you are using the Rose Hive Method.

But to be fair, Midget Gem didn't say different. He/she just said that if you want to use the same size of box throughout a hive then buying Rose Hive boxes and frames is one option. Which is true.

EDIT: Though personally, I wouldn't touch a wooden box with such thin walls ...... If I wanted to go one-size-box, and use wood, and didn't mind using non-standard frames, then I would choose Warre, not Rose.

 

[Murox]

Indeed. Just using one size of box (even if they are Rose Hive boxes) doesn't mean you are using the Rose Hive Method.

But to be fair, Midget Gem didn't say different. He/she just said that if you want to use the same size of box throughout a hive then buying Rose Hive boxes and frames is one option.

Absolutely right. I was really just making the point as another post seemed to be inferring box sizes equated to a whole method/system.

 

[Midget Gem]

Yes, but then you only have one equipment supplier, and you also can't get poly versions.

You don't have to use rose hives. You can use any boxes that are the same size. I know people who just use supers, then everything is interchangeable. I like this idea but have lots of brood boxes which I don't want to waste. I've had brood boxes full of honey before and they are far too heavy to lift so running a hive with just brood boxes is out of the question.

Everyone does things differently. You just have to find a system that you are happy with. Don't be afraid to try new methods, but also be prepared to admit they haven't worked for you and change back.

 

[Boston Bees]

You don't have to use rose hives. You can use any boxes that are the same size. I know people who just use supers, then everything is interchangeable. I like this idea but have lots of brood boxes which I don't want to waste. I've had brood boxes full of honey before and they are far too heavy to lift so running a hive with just brood boxes is out of the question.

Everyone does things differently. You just have to find a system that you are happy with. Don't be afraid to try new methods, but also be prepared to admit they haven't worked for you and change back.

Sorry, I'm confused. You said "Doesn't the Rose hive use the same size boxes throughout?". My answer related to that statement. The Rose Hive is the mid-sized box designed by Tim Rowe, which only Thornes sell.

If you are talking about using the Rose Hive METHOD, that's a completely different question.

Again and again on this forum people talk about the Rose Hive when they mean the Rose Hive Method, and vice versa.

In fact I think most people think that the Rose Hive Method simply consists of using the same size of box, when the opposite is actually true - you can do the Rose Hive Method with a mix of deep and shallow boxes if you really want (the defining characteristics are an aggressive vertical splitting of the brood nest in spring, which is not practiced in other systems, and the lack of a queen excluder - using the same sizes of box just makes it a bit easier).

 

[masterBK]

When lifting started to become a problem several elderly (ie = older than me at 74 yrs!) beekeepers I know not only cut down the number of colonies they run but replaced their brood boxs with two shallows . This creates a larger potential brood area than a single National BC and allows you to carry out demarees, bailey comb change etc if you wish to.

 

[Midget Gem]

Sorry, I'm confused. You said "Doesn't the Rose hive use the same size boxes throughout?". My answer related to that statement. The Rose Hive is the mid-sized box designed by Tim Rowe, which only Thornes sell.

If you are talking about using the Rose Hive METHOD, that's a completely different question.

Again and again on this forum people talk about the Rose Hive when they mean the Rose Hive Method, and vice versa.

In fact I think most people think that the Rose Hive Method simply consists of using the same size of box, when the opposite is actually true - you can do the Rose Hive Method with a mix of deep and shallow boxes if you really want (the defining characteristics are an aggressive vertical splitting of the brood nest in spring, which is not practiced in other systems, and the lack of a queen excluder - using the same sizes of box just makes it a bit easier).

You're not really confused. You're just being picky.