Seeking Mentor - Yorkshire

[YHB]

You are missing the point ...I've been a non treater since I got my first bees ... people told me i was mad and i persisted but i have taken lots of advice about other aspects of beekeeping - much of it proffered on here. The only aspect that flies totally in the face of common sense is your insistence on doing alcohol washes when they:

A) Kill bees
B) Achieve nothing that a sugar roll wont do

It demonstrates an intractibility that in beekeeping is the mistake that many new beekeepers make ...they are influenced by people who are set in the ways of the past and ideas written down in bee books that are repeated ad infinitum since Brother Adam was a lad.

I have no issues with you treading your own path...I'm way off piste in my beekeeping but for goodness sake listen to good advice that is backed by common sense and experience ...

I’m not insistent on the alcohol wash, but that is the process I am going to follow for 2021.

At the end of 2021 and more likely during 2021. I will take a step back and decide what has abs has t worked for me. Then, I will make a plan for 2022. It may contain the alcohol wash, it may not.

But my issue so far in this thread is it’s clear that I am being told I need to change my approach.

As you say, I wouldn’t even consider not treating my bees. I see this as a risk to other colonies in the area and feel there is too much of a risk for DWV or colony collapse.

But understand why you chose it and respect it

 

[ericbeaumont]

I can see now why people told me not to come in this site

Depends what you expect to get out of it, YHB.

I can understand that you may not welcome disruption to your plans and that the robust advice given here may do just that, but we're here to give you a leg up, not knock you down. I'd encourage you to digest it all, however much it seems at odds with your thinking. In the end, bees and not books will teach the most.

When I started beekeeping I did as you and found plenty to research, differing and strong opinions, loopy ideas, off-beat techniques and many roads to travel. At the end of that journey I acknowledged the simple truth that varroa will be present and chose to treat; all else is exploration and evaluation of ideas, which although useful and interesting are not essential.

Of course you must make your own journey to arrive at your own answer, and if you want company we'll gladly join you, but just accept that beekeepers rarely agree .

 

[amandaj57]

I haven’t said I know better, but I know, that I don’t know anything.

Losing 900 bees a test for me is worth it, to protect my colonies from DWV or worst complete collapse. It’s not I am killing 900 bees, I am saving and protecting the thousands left in the colony. Again, your view - My view.

I also know papers and books aren’t going to give me all the answers. But at no point has anyone suggested I should consider other techniques. You are telling me I am wrong.

As for swarm control, if I have no QCs and have slabs of brood. I know I have 10-12 days maximum before the colony is going explode and is more likely to swarm. At which point I know I need to knock them back, create Nucs, undertake a vertical split or one of the other meths available. I also know they are bees and going to do what they want regardless of me.

But if I know that, what am I going to gain from going in each week on that hive? I am always looking to learn,

Can you tell me where I have said That you do "know better" and where I have said that you are "wrong"
Protecting colonies from DWV and complete collapse can be achieved in other ways, you can save and protect the thousands left without killing the others.
Several people have suggested you try another technique, one that doesn't kill unnecessarily. No one has just said, you are wrong, they have suggested an alternative, less destructive method.
Where? I have suggested you are using a crueler option than you need to.
I only asked about swarm control because your post gave the impression you were only intending opening the colonies twice a year Quote "I am not planning to undertake assessments each week as this in turn will affect the colony. I only plan to open them when I have to, for scheduled assessment"

 

[Curly green finger's]

Thanks all, like you say different answers. I have spoken to a bee inspector and a master beekeeper and they both recommended drone removal. I know you are right about it being detrimental to the apiary. Isn’t that why you in it do it outside of the key drone laying months? Also it’s a combined strategy so not very hive would receive the same process at the same time.

I am going to stick with the alcohol wash, I have a number of articles and special articles on the subject. I just felt that the alcohol wash was a better indicator of the hives health. Against the sugar shake and the CO2 option. I also wouldn’t do it before the critical spring change over from winter to spring summer bees. Don’t want to lose those important fats and proteins, before the winter bees die off.

This is why I plan to use a passive and proactive testing. Once the colony has switched its brood production I didn’t think losing 300 bees would be a big issue, I’d rather know my mite load.

My plan is based on multiple sources and I have read the BBKA special article on integrated pest management.

Everyone is also right that this is my plan for 2021, I still have lots to learn. I’m sure I will be changing it again for 2022.

But as an inexperienced beekeeper, thought it was better to have my plan written down month by month as I’m not able to just react like a more experience beekeeper.

One key item for me is to improve my colony handling skills and queen marking etc.

I had my head in the sand for a bit, but have changed from using alcohol washes to sugar rolls and now excelerated drops using sublimation which is even better.

Don't always be influenced by what you read and are told find your own way that suits you and benefits your bees..

Alot of beekeepers on here are more knowledgeable than ten master beeks put together... Don't forget to become a master beek you have to take modules which is set out by some that up untill recently thought matchsticks were as good as sliced bread.

This forum is modern, practical and most of all has more love for honey bees than any other I've been on.

Good luck! and it's nice to see you have your ipm set out.. Just be aware that it will change in an instantance, same with swarm control learn about as many different methods as pos not just what a master or mentor or what you read is the best way.
Regards
CGF.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Methinks OP is playing a game with some of you.

 

[YHB]

I had my head in the sand for a bit, but have changed from using alcohol washes to sugar rolls and now excelerated drops using sublimation which is even better.

Don't always be influenced by what you read and are told find your own way that suits you and benefits your bees..

Alot of beekeepers on here are more knowledgeable than ten master beeks put together... Don't forget to become a master beek you have to take modules which is set out by some that up untill recently thought matchsticks were as good as sliced bread.

This forum is modern, practical and most of all has more love for honey bees than any other I've been on.

Good luck! and it's nice to see you have your ipm set out.. Just be aware that it will change in an instantance, same with swarm control learn about as many different methods as pos not just what a master or mentor or what you read is the best way.
Regards
CGF.

Cheers I always do, that’s why we have ended up in this long thread.

 

[YHB]

Methinks OP is playing a game with some of you.

No, just standing up for what I believe in

 

[pargyle]

Methinks OP is playing a game with some of you.

I think enough water has flowed under the bridge... I've got to go and cut my fingernails... all this tapping us wearing the screen out ...you can take a horse to water....

 

[Curly green finger's]

Cheers I always do, that’s why we have ended up in this long thread.

It's not that long, but you seem to be relishing in it..
Beekeeper's will always disagree.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As for swarm control, if I have no QCs and have slabs of brood. I know I have 10-12 days maximum before the colony is going explode and is more likely to swarm.

Really?

 

[amandaj57]

Methinks OP is playing a game with some of you.

Quite possibly

Anyway, I am off to torture, I mean tutor, some students.
I wonder if I can alcohol wash some of them???? Having said that I think some of them would enjoy it too much!

 

[masterBK]

Curly green fingers "Alot of beekeepers on here are more knowledgeable than ten master beeks put together"

I find this statement derogatory and offensive not only to me (masterbeekeeper 1983, NDB 1986) but to all those other beekeepers brave and bothered enough to put their knowledge and skills to the test. So you think alot of members of this forum are more knowledgeable and experienced than Ted hooper (deceased) was , Margaret Thomas, Ken and Dan Basterfield, Celia Davis, Adrian Waring (author of the Haynes manual, now deceased), Graham Royle ? I have probably met (and examined) more masterbeekeepers than any on this forum and can honestly say (with the odd rare exception) that the majority of masterbeekeepers are excellent experienced and knowledgable beekeepers (and who have never used or advocated the use of matchsticks under crownboards in their life !).

 

[Boston Bees]

Curly green fingers "Alot of beekeepers on here are more knowledgeable than ten master beeks put together"

I find this statement derogatory and offensive not only to me (masterbeekeeper 1983, NDB 1986) but to all those other beekeepers brave and bothered enough to put their knowledge and skills to the test. So you think alot of members of this forum are more knowledgeable and experienced than Ted hooper (deceased) was , Margaret Thomas, Ken and Dan Basterfield, Celia Davis, Adrian Waring (author of the Haynes manual, now deceased), Graham Royle ? I have probably met (and examined) more masterbeekeepers than any on this forum and can honestly say (with the odd rare exception) that the majority of masterbeekeepers are excellent experienced and knowledgable beekeepers (and who have never used or advocated the use of matchsticks under crownboards in their life !).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Curly green fingers "Alot of beekeepers on here are more knowledgeable than ten master beeks put together"

I find this statement derogatory and offensive

I find it neither - albeit leaning more than a tad towards the truth
Peoplke like Hooper, Manley, Smith, Peter David Patterson, Pam Gregory et al were not good beekeepers because they were 'Master' Beekeepers- more like despite

 

[Erichalfbee]

Curly green fingers "Alot of beekeepers on here are more knowledgeable than ten master beeks put together"

I find this statement derogatory and offensive not only to me (masterbeekeeper 1983, NDB 1986) but to all those other beekeepers brave and bothered enough to put their knowledge and skills to the test. So you think alot of members of this forum are more knowledgeable and experienced than Ted hooper (deceased) was , Margaret Thomas, Ken and Dan Basterfield, Celia Davis, Adrian Waring (author of the Haynes manual, now deceased), Graham Royle ? I have probably met (and examined) more masterbeekeepers than any on this forum and can honestly say (with the odd rare exception) that the majority of masterbeekeepers are excellent experienced and knowledgable beekeepers (and who have never used or advocated the use of matchsticks under crownboards in their life !).

Crikey! Curly certainly ruffled a few feathers.
You’d think a thick skin would come with all those modules?

 

[pargyle]

Crikey! Curly certainly ruffled a few feathers.
You’d think a thick skin would come with all those modules?

And writers cramp ....we should not taunt our resident expert ... CGF is in his footsteps doing the modules... the feather may be in his hat one day !

 

[Curly green finger's]

Curly green fingers "Alot of beekeepers on here are more knowledgeable than ten master beeks put together"

I find this statement derogatory and offensive not only to me (masterbeekeeper 1983, NDB 1986) but to all those other beekeepers brave and bothered enough to put their knowledge and skills to the test. So you think alot of members of this forum are more knowledgeable and experienced than Ted hooper (deceased) was , Margaret Thomas, Ken and Dan Basterfield, Celia Davis, Adrian Waring (author of the Haynes manual, now deceased), Graham Royle ? I have probably met (and examined) more masterbeekeepers than any on this forum and can honestly say (with the odd rare exception) that the majority of masterbeekeepers are excellent experienced and knowledgable beekeepers (and who have never used or advocated the use of matchsticks under crownboards in their life !).

Apologies I wasn't trying to be derogatory... It was a comment for the op.. Meaning don't always listen to those that supposedly are more experienced, Be your self and grow in the way you want to not how others want you to be... Get me for example I love my three box system it works for me but my mentor doesn't like it.
I started using the Miller frame method and persisted for a few seasons.. Mentor again grafts, and said it was a waste of time. ( Miller frame)
This season I will be grafting but only because its now time and I want to do it..
To many follow the masses and not enough are who they want to be.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Apologies

I’m disappointed

 

[Curly green finger's]

Well I try and appease most..
I felt like saying more but I didn't want the mods to ban me

 

[pargyle]

Well I try and appease most..
I felt like saying more but I didn't want the mods to ban me