save our barn owls

[pargyle]

I would agree with you. What is humane about leaving a trapped animal in a box for hours/days until someone comes along to either release it miles from home in a possibly hostile environment or dispatch it. I tend to think that the old fashioned traps are more humane... And I don't like killing anything!

Humane mouse traps are to be checked every few hours ... the ones I caught were not in the trap for more than an hour and were released well away from human habitation within an hour or so of being caught. Field mice - so fields the best place for them... they will either survive or become fox or owl fodder without any poison in them.

Rats ... completely different situation. Disease carrying vermin. Exterminate any way possible. Take care with some poisons I would suggest. I'd prefer traps that kill or capture and then kill them humanely.

Foxes ... can be a nuisance if left uncontrolled and I'm in favour of culling when necessary - by shooting them.

I would be surprised if the RSPCA release an animal with mange or any other deficiencies back into the wild - I've seen at first hand the work they do and any animals they take in are either fit and healthy enough to be released or they are put down if past the point where they can be rehabilitated.

Urban myth that they release mangy urban foxes into the countryside I'm afraid ... don't know who puts these stories out - probably the Daily Snail ...

 

[Stiffy]

Humane mouse traps are to be checked every few hours ... the ones I caught were not in the trap for more than an hour and were released well away from human habitation within an hour or so of being caught. Field mice - so fields the best place for them... they will either survive or become fox or owl fodder without any poison in them.

Rats ... completely different situation. Disease carrying vermin. Exterminate any way possible. Take care with some poisons I would suggest. I'd prefer traps that kill or capture and then kill them humanely.

Foxes ... can be a nuisance if left uncontrolled and I'm in favour of culling when necessary - by shooting them.

I would be surprised if the RSPCA release an animal with mange or any other deficiencies back into the wild - I've seen at first hand the work they do and any animals they take in are either fit and healthy enough to be released or they are put down if past the point where they can be rehabilitated.

Urban myth that they release mangy urban foxes into the countryside I'm afraid ... don't know who puts these stories out - probably the Daily Snail ...

Although I do not like rats they are one of the most intelligent creatures that can echolocate, learn and have complex social systems that includes laughter. I have used poison but if they have become a problem I use Eradibait which is a little more expensive and needs to be the major food source.
I keep chickens and yes have lost some to foxes, this isnt the foxes fault but mine and in all cases a result of my not ensuring they were locked away properly.
I have heard the nonsense about the release of foxes into the countryside before and have enquired from the RSPA if they do release them. Surprisingly they replied that they would never knowingly release any animal that was sick and all are released close to where they have been found. It is just a rumour put about by the hunting brigade to try and condone their 'hobby'
S


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It is just a rumour put about by the hunting brigade to try and condone their 'hobby'
S
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

It's not a hobby in my neck of the woods goodboy it's a service and a necessity.
I just sent a letter to one of the tightest farmers in the district last week asking for more money as the hunt overheads are increasing - he promptly without argument trebled his donation and undertook to pay individually for each carcass we disposed for him.

Urban myth that they release mangy urban foxes into the countryside I'm afraid ... don't know who puts these stories out - probably the Daily Snail ...

And I HAVE WITNESSED A VAN TURNING UP AND LETTING LOOSE OVER A DOZEN FOXES. Two, when I shot them had surgically amputated legs - they may have been well fed, but some had mange and they soon would starve as they cannot survive without bins or a macdonalds to forage.
I'm afraid I cannot believe a word the RSPCA say as they are inveterate liars as can be seen, from the criticism from one judge this week when he threw out another case.
Too much bo**ox spoken by too many people who know bu**er all about this matter IMHO

 

[Stiffy]

It's not a hobby in my neck of the woods goodboy it's a service and a necessity.
I just sent a letter to one of the tightest farmers in the district last week asking for more money as the hunt overheads are increasing - he promptly without argument trebled his donation and undertook to pay individually for each carcass we disposed for him.




And I HAVE WITNESSED A VAN TURNING UP AND LETTING LOOSE OVER A DOZEN FOXES. Two, when I shot them had surgically amputated legs - they may have been well fed, but some had mange and they soon would starve as they cannot survive without bins or a macdonalds to forage.
I'm afraid I cannot believe a word the RSPCA say as they are inveterate liars as can be seen, from the criticism from one judge this week when he threw out another case.
Too much bo**ox spoken by too many people who know bu**er all about this matter IMHO

Yes I don't doubt he trebled his donation and most of this will come from the farming subsidies he is getting from the EU i.e. us! Sooner these subsidies are stopped and people start paying the correct amount for the food produced the better.
If foxes have been relocated to the countryside then I doubt it would have been the RSPCA as they have too much to lose, more likely released by the stupid mxrxns who wish to chase them on horseback.
I for one am glad that the RSPCA have started to take a responsible attitude to the so called field sports and hunting fraternity and are now bringing prosecutions, something that should have been done by the police but never happened as they were under political pressure from HM government. I guess the case you are referring to is the hunt Camoron is a member off that was taken to court and found guilty?
I totally agree there has been too much boxxox been spoken by people who know buxxer all about this matter, its a pity they are still practising their outdated and archaic practises.

Hopefully science, knowledge and good animal husbandry will eventually get through but don't hold your breath as unless there is a 'hand-out' some are deaf to the facts.
S

 

[drstitson]

IMHO the RSPCA are unfit for purpose.
Need scrapping and replacing with a well regulated organisation with defined remit and powers.

 

[pargyle]

And I HAVE WITNESSED A VAN TURNING UP AND LETTING LOOSE OVER A DOZEN FOXES. Two, when I shot them had surgically amputated legs - they may have been well fed, but some had mange and they soon would starve as they cannot survive without bins or a macdonalds to forage.
I'm afraid I cannot believe a word the RSPCA say as they are inveterate liars as can be seen, from the criticism from one judge this week when he threw out another case.

If this is happening then it's crass stupidity ... what chance would a three legged fox stand trying to survive without the opportunity for urban takeaways ... or any urban fox dumped in the country ?

We had a fox that came through out garden for years carrying a badly deformed leg, I assume it survived an RTA or a dog attack ... biggest healthiest dog fox I've ever seen and it could outrun our lab and squirm through the fox holes in our fences but I'm sure it survived on urban scavenging and people who feed them (I don't I would add), not on hunting - except, perhaps, earthworms which seem to be a staple in their urban diet !.

 

[user 6228]

Hunting foxes to keep their numbers under control is fine... The penalties should have been against breeding foxes to hunt.

Thats why I dont hold with breeding pheasants to be shot then dumped but Shooting surplus wild pheasants for the pot is fine with me.

But then hunting has always been subject to class politics ..

The old laws that Robin hood broke taking deer are propagated today by making deer only to be taken by high velocity rifles and not by bow and arrow. Even hunting rabbits is subject to having to have a gun. (environment and county side act).

 

[madasafish]

Sooner these subsidies are stopped and people start paying the correct amount for the food produced the better.


Hopefully science, knowledge and good animal husbandry will eventually get through but don't hold your breath as unless there is a 'hand-out' some are deaf to the facts.
S

So you don't think current austerity is enough and want to raise food prices dramatically?
That will go down with the poor.

 

[Stiffy]

So you don't think current austerity is enough and want to raise food prices dramatically?

That will go down with the poor.

And you think the funding of the rich land owners and keeping third world countries starving and unable to compete on the open market is right?

 

[madasafish]

And you think the funding of the rich land owners and keeping third world countries starving and unable to compete on the open market is right?

I don't see many rich farmers round here.. And the Co-Op is the UK's largest farmer. Landowners are not subsidised. Farmers are. There is often a difference.
http://tinyurl.com/pjgogtb

And there is a significant issue of food security - most recently highlighted in WW2 .

Of course, if you want most of the UK's farmers to stop farming and the UK to depend entirely on imported produce (with all the risks that entails), and the lanscape to go native - ideal for bees - then your policy is ideal...

http://tinyurl.com/p6q89ld Economics section is worth reading.

 

[Itchy]

Multiple arguments going on....

Stop imports of stuff we can produce.
Dumping foxes out of territory is potentially illegal under animal welfare laws.

 

[pargyle]

Multiple arguments going on....

Gentle rational discussion in contrast to previous Forum disagreements !!

 

[Hivemaker.]

Even hunting rabbits is subject to having to have a gun.

Ferrets and a few nets works quite well, or a good lurcher and lamp, no need for a gun.

 

[madasafish]

As a kid I caught lots of rabbits with nets and ferret. The only downside was having to occasionally dig the ferret out...

 

[Stiffy]

Gentle rational discussion in contrast to previous Forum disagreements !!

Hear hear, I certainly don't mind discussing issues with people I may not necessarily agree with.
S

 

[Itchy]

Pargyl, I used the word arguments in its lighter sense...I think. Maybe discussions is a better phrase.

 

[Stiffy]

I don't see many rich farmers round here.. And the Co-Op is the UK's largest farmer. Landowners are not subsidised. Farmers are. There is often a difference.
http://tinyurl.com/pjgogtb

And there is a significant issue of food security - most recently highlighted in WW2 .

Of course, if you want most of the UK's farmers to stop farming and the UK to depend entirely on imported produce (with all the risks that entails), and the lanscape to go native - ideal for bees - then your policy is ideal...

http://tinyurl.com/p6q89ld Economics section is worth reading.

I agree that we need food security, it is how you go about this that matters. For good or bad things have changed since the last war and we now have a far more global system were we must take into account what our actions have on others.
The problem is much of our food industry is still in the early 20th century and successive governments have been afraid to tackle the problem and are propping up a system that is out-dated.
Just as we lost our manufacturing base to the far east in the 60's, the same is happening with farming were production is being pushed to parts of Africa and South America as well as eastern Europe and other parts of the world. This will in the long term help many of these countries to climb out of poverty but unless we change and modernise the way we do things and treat our very small country and all its inhabitants with respect we would not be in any position to advise and influence anyone.
The other way is to continue propping up the system with hand-outs until it becomes another basket case and we become another province of China and India as has happened with our manufacturing.
Climbs off his high horse
S

 

[user 6228]

Ferrets and a few nets works quite well, or a good lurcher and lamp, no need for a gun.

but I dont keep dogs or ferrets and still am not allowed to use my skill with a bow to practical use...
It takes a lot more time to be able to hit a 50mm target at 20 yards with a recurve bow and arrow than a shotgun or a rifle

 

[madasafish]

but I dont keep dogs or ferrets and still am not allowed to use my skill with a bow to practical use...
It takes a lot more time to be able to hit a 50mm target at 20 yards with a recurve bow and arrow than a shotgun or a rifle

You need a Russian repeating crossbow...http://tinyurl.com/qfjg5ed

None of these outdated wooden things where the rain ruins them

 

[madasafish]

I agree that we need food security, it is how you go about this that matters. For good or bad things have changed since the last war and we now have a far more global system were we must take into account what our actions have on others.
The problem is much of our food industry is still in the early 20th century and successive governments have been afraid to tackle the problem and are propping up a system that is out-dated.
Just as we lost our manufacturing base to the far east in the 60's, the same is happening with farming were production is being pushed to parts of Africa and South America as well as eastern Europe and other parts of the world. This will in the long term help many of these countries to climb out of poverty but unless we change and modernise the way we do things and treat our very small country and all its inhabitants with respect we would not be in any position to advise and influence anyone.
The other way is to continue propping up the system with hand-outs until it becomes another basket case and we become another province of China and India as has happened with our manufacturing.
Climbs off his high horse
S

Yes it's out of date..

Look at our biggest food sector : beef and dairy.. Do you know they still keep cows in fields rather than feed them in big barns ?

How inefficient. Someone wanted to invest £millions to bring the technology to the UK: guess what? The peasants revolted...
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/factoryfarm#petition