Sagging and twisted sheets of foundation and comb after placing swarms in poly-nucs

[Amari]

I've caught two moderate-size swarms in the last fortnight and placed each in a 6-frame poly-nuc with OMF furnished with foundation. I checked progress several days later and in both nucs found that the foundation had sagged and twisted so that they had fused with their neighbours resulting in the newly drawn comb being a right jumbly mess.

The nucs are in full sun and the wax was very soft. Presumably a case of overheating? - but I've not had trouble with foundation melting in poly-supers on full size hives

 

[enrico]

I've caught two moderate-size swarms in the last fortnight and placed each in a 6-frame poly-nuc with OMF furnished with foundation. I checked progress several days later and in both nucs found that the foundation had sagged and twisted so that they had fused with their neighbours resulting in the newly drawn comb being a right jumbly mess.

The nucs are in full sun and the wax was very soft. Presumably a case of overheating? - but I've not had trouble with foundation melting in poly-supers on full size hives

Wired?

 

[Amari]

Wired?

Yes.

 

[enrico]

I can only guess that the inside of the nuc was too warm when the frames were put in and before the bees could cool it down to the correct temperature. If you replace a frame does the same happen?

 

[Antipodes]

I've caught two moderate-size swarms in the last fortnight and placed each in a 6-frame poly-nuc with OMF furnished with foundation. I checked progress several days later and in both nucs found that the foundation had sagged and twisted so that they had fused with their neighbours resulting in the newly drawn comb being a right jumbly mess.

The nucs are in full sun and the wax was very soft. Presumably a case of overheating? - but I've not had trouble with foundation melting in poly-supers on full size hives

It's probably to do with the fact that the bees are more clustered in a swarm...initially anyhow, and in my experience they can generally produce a lot of heat in that state, particularly when first placed in a box . They are not ordered and spread out like they soon become once they have sorted themselves out with some drawn comb and foraging. I suggested it as an issue on another post recently but it was dismissed because the weather was not warm enough there.

 

[Amari]

I can only guess that the inside of the nuc was too warm when the frames were put in and before the bees could cool it down to the correct temperature. If you replace a frame does the same happen?

Yes, that's possible but I've not not looked yet to assess the current state of affairs!

 

[Swarm]

It's probably to do with the fact that the bees are more clustered in a swarm...initially anyhow, and in my experience they can generally produce a lot of heat in that state, particularly when first placed in a box . They are not ordered and spread out like they soon become once they have sorted themselves out with some drawn comb and foraging. I suggested it as an issue on another post recently but it was dismissed because the weather was not warm enough there.

I agree and it can be a right pain when they concentrate their work on one side of the sheet, weight of bees and heat and the foundation sags.

 

[ericbeaumont]

two moderate-size swarms in the last fortnight and placed each in a 6-frame poly-nuc with OMF furnished with foundation

Were the swarms boxed and driven to the apiary?

 

[Ian123]

How did you build frames I’ve seen some nail the bottom bars together, wax needs a little space to sag into!…….. just checking!

 

[Amari]

Were the swarms boxed and driven to the apiary?

How did you build frames I’ve seen some nail the bottom bars together, wax needs a little space to sag into!…….. just checking!

Driven only 1/2 mile!
For 15 years I've used mainly plastic frames which open like a book and the foundation is inserted then the frame snapped together. Thus there are no gimp pins to hold the wire loops under the top bar. In the nuc in question both wood and plastic frames had collapsed foundation/partially drawn comb.
The pics show a frame of old comb brought home for recycling and foundation being slid into a frame.
Advantages of plastic frames: no nails needed if making up new frames in the apiary/easier than wood to clean and reuse.
Disads: more expensive/ need to be more careful examining old heavy comb because it can break away from the top bar.
I'm slowly returning to wood frames.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Driven only 1/2 mile!

That would be enough to melt wax on a warm day with nuc box lids fitted, esp. as the swarm would be in high excitement and producing heat.

No longer do I transit bees in poly nucs with the lid on; in addition, the silicone plug in the BS box feeder is removed and a piece of mesh put over it. To increase venting further, I mean to cut pieces of stainless floor mesh to fit in place of the two clear feeder slot lids. Some of the Park nucs have solid floors and I don't use those for moving bees.

 

[Wingy]

Had this happen to 2 this season and hadn’t really thought anything other than I mustn’t have fixed the wax in properly.
2 Maismore 6 frame poly Nucs each with 2 frames of drawn comb, swarm went in was moved less than 5 mins in the back of a pick up and 4 frames with new foundation dropped in. 2 weeks later comb was all over the place foundation buckled and twisted. These were not in full Sun and have ONF