Disaster - Poly-nuc overheating!

[Amari]

Five evenings ago I was called out to retrieve a moderate sized swarm. Time was severely constrained by my departure next morning for three days away. I shook most of the bees into a polynuc then inserted four frames of foundation and one frame of drawn comb. I left the nuc beside the tree to let the bees remaining on the tree rejoin the colony. I returned at 1030pm. Lots of bees in the nuc and none on the tree.
Drove to my apiary and placed the nuc on a hive stand and removed the foam plugging from the door. No feed given.
I returned 3 days later. Disaster! The sheets of foundation had all melted and sagged into a heap stuck together. There was a cupful of bees on the drawn comb but no queen. I looked around hoping to see the colony hanging in a tree but zilch.
The nuc was in full sun until c. 2pm each (hot) day but I had reckoned that there would be sufficient ventilation via the OMF of the polynuc. All my hives are wood so I have little experience of polys. Are polys this vulnerable to overheating?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I reckon they absconded as soon as your back was turned so there were no bees in there to control the temperature in the nuc.

 

[Poly Hive]

Most likely answer.

The very early poly nucs from Germany had pretty large mesh floors, and of course their summer temps are a fair bit higher than ours but... our makers might want to have a think about that.

PH

 

[Erichalfbee]

If it was a prime swarm the nuc would have been too small for them so they went to find something bigger?

 

[Finman]

.
Polyhives do not over heat, according my 29 years experience.
But bees can die for lack of oxygen, when you transport them, if hive is nervous and over heat.


If foudations are not properly glued to the topbars, they may collapse down. They soften in the heat of cluster, and there are lots of bees hanging on the foundation..

If to say something nice, next time you know, how to wax frames. My friend has those collapsing quite often. And I have learned too this thing via collapsing.

With two wire I had fhose too much, and now I glue wax cheet into top bar with melted wax.

To avoid swarm to escape, you may use excluder.

 

[Amari]

Thanks for the replies - all seem plausible. I use unwired foundation in plastic frames so probably mea culpa

 

[YorkshireBees]

I caught a prime swarm (large) from my own the other day in a PolyNuc. All seemed fine but after about an hour they started to come back out.

I reckon the size / temperature (hot day / full sun) probably didn't help.

I blocked the entrance and moved the polynuc into the shade a few yards away.

Left till evening and sure enough the bees had clustered under the omf.

Transferred them into a full size poly hive and left them quite happy.

Next day they left again and didn't see which way they went.

Conclusion:
Probably a 6 frame PolyNuc is too small for a large prime swarm (although I have caught them in the past with no problem).

Some bees just have the urge to distance themselves from the original site.

** Never had a problem with foundation melting in any kind of hive but I always use wired foundation. **

 

[Finman]

Thanks for the replies - all seem plausible. I use unwired foundation in plastic frames so probably mea culpa

Biggest disaster is that you do not have wires..
.

 

[user 6228]

All swarms regardless of swarm size want 40 litres and entrance less than 20 sq cms.

Place a new swarm in full size hive with the omf blacked out every time until they have brood.
If they are small go for a double nuc rather than a full size hive, dont use a nuc.

 

[Poly Hive]

"All swarms regardless of swarm size want 40 litres"

Sorry but disagree. The 40l came from American research.

I have hived many a swarm in a five frame nuc whether poly or wood.

PH

 

[YorkshireBees]

"All swarms regardless of swarm size want 40 litres"

Sorry but disagree. The 40l came from American research.

I have hived many a swarm in a five frame nuc whether poly or wood.

PH

With the exception of the one this year I have never had any swarm leave a 5 frame polynuc once inside.
Even a large prime swarm last year were quite happy for a week or two.

For me it is the convenience of using a 5 Frame Poly Nuc for swarm collection that makes it a lot easier task. I can hold the box under a swarm on a branch quite easily and knock them in.
Collection in the evening is then just a case of closing the entrance disc or stuffing the hole on the older ones and strapping it up. It also means I no longer have to disturb them. I just drive them to there new home and re-open the entrance.

 

[Finman]

All swarms regardless of swarm size want 40 litres and entrance less than 20 sq cms.

Place a new swarm in full size hive with the omf blacked out every time until they have brood.
If they are small go for a double nuc rather than a full size hive, dont use a nuc.

That 40 litre thing comes propably from research in US university, when they found that 40 litre swarm trap is best to invite swarms.

It is size of langstroth box. 2-2.5 kg swarm occopyes one langstroth box and draw all foundations in a week.

I have got from my hives even 5 kg swarms. It needs 2 langstroth boxes and one medium.

But there are small swarms too. Few years ago the swarm occupied only medium frame. And all kind of swarms between 0.2 kg - 5 kg.

So you see, that 40 litre trap catches only medium size or smaller size swarms. Best ones must continue their voyage.

.

 

[Finman]

With the exception of the one this year I have never had any swarm leave a 5 frame polynuc once inside.
Even a large prime swarm last year were quite happy for a week or two.

For me it is the convenience of using a 5 Frame Poly Nuc for swarm collection that makes it a lot easier task. .

Easier?

I can say that I hardly get 5 frame swarms.

When I clip the queen wing, my swarms have usually prime + cast together, and they occupy mostly 20 langstroth frames.

It is vain to try big swarm to small hives, because bees leave very soon such hives. Next morning and they go 9:00 a'clock.

I tell this way, that there are many kind of swarm in traffic. There is no rule what they are.
.

 

[user 6228]

With the exception of the one this year I have never had any swarm leave a 5 frame polynuc once inside.
Even a large prime swarm last year were quite happy for a week or two.

For me it is the convenience of using a 5 Frame Poly Nuc for swarm collection that makes it a lot easier task. I can hold the box under a swarm on a branch quite easily and knock them in.
Collection in the evening is then just a case of closing the entrance disc or stuffing the hole on the older ones and strapping it up. It also means I no longer have to disturb them. I just drive them to there new home and re-open the entrance.

Note "Want"... want doesn't always get... Honeybees will take the best available so what they do put up with has a lot to do with all the sites and cavities you don't see but the scouts have measured and voted on. All according to Prof Seeley so argue with him.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have two sized bait hives: 5 frame 14x12 nucs and 11 frame 14x12 full size boxes. Casts always go for the smaller. I have watched scouts fly between the two for s day choosing

 

[Finman]

Note "Want"... want doesn't always get... Honeybees will take the best available so what they do put up with has a lot to do with all the sites and cavities you don't see but the scouts have measured and voted on. All according to Prof Seeley so argue with him.

But you cannot put 80 litre swarm to 40 litre hive.
Prof Seeley did not meant that, what we are talking now.

 

[Finman]

I have two sized bait hives: 5 frame 14x12 nucs and 11 frame 14x12 full size boxes. Casts always go for the smaller. I have watched scouts fly between the two for s day choosing

To where you put 20 frame swarms?

 

[Hivemaker.]

If they are small go for a double nuc rather than a full size hive, dont use a nuc.

Depends how small a swarm with regards the size of nuc, double apidea or double 14x12.

 

[Erichalfbee]

To where you put 20 frame swarms?

A 20 frame box?

 

[Swarm]

My swarm is bigger than your swarm Are we talking 5 frame poly nucs or 6 frame? The biggest problem is the OMF, I seal it to prevent clustering underneath.
I agree with JBM, bees absconded beforehand.