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rye flour instead of soya

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daytonadean 

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Hi All

I am just about to make some patties,

I read in a vary old bee book that you can use rye flour for patties.

On the feedbee web site it says you should not feed soya flour, ( maybe to sell there product ) but have any of you, used rye flour in your patties ??

Thanks
Dean
 

Poly Hive 

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Very old book maybe a clue. And no is the answer.

Defatterd flour and irridated pollen are your friends here.

PH
 

hedgerow pete 

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nope i have never heard of it aswell, but this is comimng from the guy that has completly given up on buying ever again low fat, defatted soya flour in the uk and willbe using full fat soya this year for the first year ever, maybe a mix of defatted flour and some thing else should be used, say milk powder??,

whats your opinions?
 

Finman 

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In soya aminoacid content is the secret why it is used. It resembles animal protein.

Other flours are starch.

Best protein sources to bees are
- irradiated pollen
- yeast
- soya flour
- pollen frames from own hives

Don't use anything else, neither skimmed milk nor hen egg.

All patty stuffs have test in laboratories during 30 years.
This is not at all "common sence" issue.

MAAREC:s paper is very good.

http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/bkCD/HBBiology/nutrition_supplements.htm

From Australia information May 2005 : https://rirdc.infoservices.com.au/downloads/05-054.pdf
FAT BEES
SKINNY BEES
-a manual on honey bee nutrition for beekeepers-

.
 
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Hombre 

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Brewers yeast powder seems to be another common ingredient, what does it add to the mix please Finman? (rather than seem to contradict the flow, I would prefer that it was put into the greater context)

From my readings, I understand that the practice of adding powdered milk was deprecated a few years ago.
 

Poly Hive 

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Finman is quire right and if we start all these hares it is a waste of time.

I am researching defatted soya flour and if anyone can point to a supplier then I would appreciate it.

Also to irridated pollen.

PH
 

Finman 

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From my readings, I understand that the practice of adding powdered milk was deprecated a few years ago.

Yes, it is often in recipes. However powdered milk is expencive.
It has 50% of weight lactose sugar.

Yeast, brewer of baking, has a good aminoacid content and it is quite cheap.
I have got out of date dry yeast from yeast factory.

Soya flour is too hard to use alone. It is better to mix with yeast.
 
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Finman 

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I was advised against using soya flour because the beans have been treated with a chemical before being planted.

Most of world's soya yield is genemanipulated. It is much more stylish to say to be against genemanipulation.

Many of plant seeds have coated with chemicals and they are sprayed many times with chemicals during growing.

But as I have said, look first your wife's chemical store and then think over are you going to kiss her.
 

Finman 

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I am researching defatted soya flour and if anyone can point to a supplier then I would appreciate it.

Also to irridated pollen.

PH
I know one place to get soya milk replacer HP 100 Hamlet protein.
In UK it is deleivered

United KingdomPark Tonks Ltd.
48 North Road
Great Abington
Cambridge CB1 6AS
England

Tel.: +44 1223 89 17 21
Fax: +44 1223 89 35 71
e-mail: mail@parktonks.co.uk This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

Contact person: Mr. Simon Knowles

********

Other HP products aretoo coarse to bees. HP 100 is high quality product and aminoacid contet is good.
.
 

daytonadean 

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Thanks Guys,

I found the book, it was Langstroth's Hive and the Honey-bee circa,,a long time ago.. it also mentions wheat flour..

Soya it is then.

Thanks again
Dean
 

Poly Hive 

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Yess.... just a tad out of date.

Thing is at the risk of sounding dogmatic, every year start this discussion kicks off and eventually all end up pretty much in agreement that a mix of soya flour of the defatted version, sugar and pollen makes a nice stiff mix that the bees dive into with gusto.

PH
 

Poly Hive 

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Update

The company above no longer supplies that product sad to say.

PH
 

Hombre 

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That's a bit of a shame PH, although I suspect that a 25kg sack might have been best as a communal buy for associations.

I know that you can purchase Brewers Yeast Powder, but given a sufficiency of spent brewers years, does anyone know if, after drying and grinding, it is a viable product for incorporation into patties.

What is involved in the process of debittering brewers yeast?

Does the yeast from home brewed beer qualify or just a commercial brewers yeast?

Should I stop dreaming of cheaper yeast now? :)

Sorry, but I just wondered if anyone out there has any of the answers, except to that final question of course - The answer there is just too easy for wags and wizards alike. :grouphug:

Hedgerow Pete reckons that all those beer barrels are for feeding the bees. :)
 

Poly Hive 

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I can use a 25kg sack no bother.

I have no interest in yeast and consider it a false path.

I am hoping to get info on where to get the soya from today.

I am also hoping to get info on pollen supply today to, but if anyone knows of a vendor I am interested.

PH
 

Finman 

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I have no interest in yeast and consider it a false path.
Last spring I had too much dry baker yeast. I put protein source about
20% pollen, 20% soya and 60% dry yeast.

My hives ate everything during the week and brooding was good.

Poly, you have stubborn ideas with you patty demands.

- Soya is better wit 20% fat, normal stuff in grocery.
- yeast is very essential with soya. Too much soya and it dries up in the hive. It is too hard to bite it.


Let's see, do I get milk replacer soya. Last year I did not.

.
 

Finman 

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Make a flat patty

Only place to patty is over the cluster and over the top bars.

I am not going to roll it any more. I will make a large form board which has
10 mm hight borders. The breadth is so that I put grease paper on bottom. Then I pour the dough and let it settle down and become even.
When I add in last moment dry yeast, it takes extra moisture in and dough will solidify so that it does not run down from top bars.

Of course the grease paper over the patty too.

*********

I have developed my patty recipe so long that it is really good. It seems complex but it is meant to be palatable to bees. The simple dough version consumptíon is only 50% that or even less.

If bees do not like patty, the bite it away but you will find it on the bottom board.

.
 
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