Robbing Wasps

[GaryH]

I was donated a QC. I made up a Nuc and shook 3 frames of bees into the 5 frame box.
My esteemed colleagues told me that the nurse bees cannot convert the honey into food without flying bees collecting water and needed a feeder.
So I went back in and moved the frames into a National Deep ( with an under floor entrance) this was so I could get the feeder on top.
During this time I noticed the QC had emerged but the bees were down to covering just the middle frames.
A few days passed and I watched from a distance and was initially encouraged by the ‘activity’ however, this was soon replaced by disappointment, because the activity was robbing wasps.
Other than shake more Bees into the weak nuc I don’t know what else to do.
I have found and destroyed one wasp nest. I’m in the process of exterminating another in the cavity of the house.
Is there any other way to stop the wasps robbing?

 

[enrico]

try this thread
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/wasp-tunnel-mark-two.45362/

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My esteemed colleagues told me that the nurse bees cannot convert the honey into food without flying bees collecting water and needed a feeder.

your 'esteemed' colleague needs to educate themselves a bit more. The nurse bees will cope well enough, do they believe that nurse bees can't fly if needs be? I always make up nucs by leaving nurse bees with a frame of capped stores, and none have starved yet.

 

[Ian123]

I’ll make up nucs as you did but early season will add a frame of spare winter stores I’ve reserved or late season you should have plenty of store frames available in other hives.
Do not feed new nucs if it’s not wasps returning flying bees can also ring the dinner bell!!!!
Nucs made with young nurse bees can certainly be quiet at the entrance for a few days, foragers and indeed guard bees but they sort themselves out given a little time.
Now they have been pin pointed by wasps it’ll be tricky even if adding more bees they will likely still try. Remove the feeder narrow the entrance to a single bee space. Ensure brood frames are right behind the entrance. You could even move to another location.

 

[Garry R]

I made these up last year and had them on all winter. The wasps did not have a clue how to get in at the ends. No mouse guards needed either . Rows of 5mm holes across the entrance position and a cut out at the back to let the bees in once they found the tunnel which did not take long. I run small entrances all year but it still helped. Dirt cheap from electric trunking. Gave a few to friends and they have the same opinion - try them.

 

[ericbeaumont]

move to another location.

found and destroyed one wasp nest

Ian's suggestion is your last resort, but it depends whether the queen has mated or is about to do so, because moving her might mess it up. Try Gary's entrance baffle first.

Don't bother killing wasps, because you have no idea which nests are responsible: the two you've found or the other nine you don't know about.

If there's a flow on, you could strengthen the nuc by shaking a lot of supers bees from a colony onto a board leading up into the nuc entrance. If no flow, don't try it.

 

[Ian123]

An easy fix for an entrance is also just to make a tunnel 15-18 mm pipe is good. You want it about 60mm-70mm long is practical and useful!

 

[Gilberdyke John]

your 'esteemed' colleague needs to educate themselves a bit more. The nurse bees will cope well enough, do they believe that nurse bees can't fly if needs be? I always make up nucs by leaving nurse bees with a frame of capped stores, and none have starved yet.

It's amazing how much rubbish is spouted by "respected", "experienced" and "esteemed" beekeepers. Other adjectives may also apply. There's only one adjective that counts in my book and that's COMPETENT

 

[GaryH]

Ok I’ve totally blocked up the already limited underfloor entrance with foam while I figure out next move.
I opened up weak nuc hive. Again only a small number of bees. However I have a Queen in there she’s thin though
She emerged say Tuesday Wednesday last week. I’m thinking shake some nurse bees in from the main colony (Q only just started laying in there too) then move the hive to another part of the garden and
Leave it blocked up for 24 hours. Meanwhile, place a sugar syrup wasp trap where the hive was.

Is this a good idea or not?

 

[GaryH]

I’m going to try the tube tunnel thing tomorrow when I have the kit

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Meanwhile, place a sugar syrup wasp trap where the hive was.

that kind of 'trap' is just going to attract more wasps to the area

 

[GaryH]

Ok thanks what about the other part of my problem ie new queen blocked off entrance shaking bees in ( from super)

 

[Amari]

Ok I’ve totally blocked up the already limited underfloor entrance with foam while I figure out next move.
I opened up weak nuc hive. Again only a small number of bees. However I have a Queen in there she’s thin though
She emerged say Tuesday Wednesday last week. I’m thinking shake some nurse bees in from the main colony (Q only just started laying in there too) then move the hive to another part of the garden and
Leave it blocked up for 24 hours. Meanwhile, place a sugar syrup wasp trap where the hive was.

Is this a good idea or not?

It's disappointing that to read that wasps are getting through your UFEntrance - one of the supposed merits of UFEs is reduced robbing - it certainly works for me.
You 'have a Queen in there' but is she mated? If not it's dodgy moving the hive to another part of the garden or fitting complex anti-robbing devices.

 

[ericbeaumont]

new queen blocked off entrance

No easy solution, but unless you fit the baffle and strengten the nuc, the game will be over pretty quickly, so you'll have to risk those two strategies as the least worst options.

Either the queen has already mated and will lay soon, or she'll have located on the nuc and will work out the baffle, or she won't, but a weak nuc is fair game and you'll have learned a valuable lesson: makes nucs earlier in the season and make them stronger.

For example, last week I gave a full frame of emerging brood to a tiddly 3f nuc and this week it's full and on 5f. Wasps are about on the allotment but will probably avoid it now.

 

[Ian123]

Ok I’ve totally blocked up the already limited underfloor entrance with foam while I figure out next move.
I opened up weak nuc hive. Again only a small number of bees. However I have a Queen in there she’s thin though
She emerged say Tuesday Wednesday last week. I’m thinking shake some nurse bees in from the main colony (Q only just started laying in there too) then move the hive to another part of the garden and
Leave it blocked up for 24 hours. Meanwhile, place a sugar syrup wasp trap where the hive was.

Is this a good idea or not?

Don’t put sugar syrup in traps it will attract bees.

 

[RogerIvy]

Don’t put sugar syrup in traps it will attract bees.

I read that bees won’t be trapped if you include a bit of vinegar. True?

 

[Ian123]

Use fruit coke jam….. yes I’ve seen that adding vinegar works but not added it myself. Any fruit past it’s best and chopped up also helps when it all starts fermenting!

 

[Erichalfbee]

In extremis you can put a dummy nuc in its place with a saucer of sugar syrup to rob out while you hastily order a waspbane to put there which will deal with all the robbers

 

[RogerIvy]

I tried a trap about 20m from my apiary and trapped what looks like hundreds of wasps, see no bees at all.
I used sugar water with about two tablespoons of vinegar. Last year I had a trap in the same place and got mostly wasps but also a few bees.
This year we have an incredible number of wasps.

 

[user 819]

Problem with wasp traps is one also kills non target species such as V, crabro .