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requeen??

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peteinwilts 

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My second set of bees are becoming exceedingly unpleasant to be around... they are an ex-swarm, and although they have foraged like demons, they are starting to act like them....

There is no danger to animals or the public, only me.

The question is, if queens are still available, should i requeen now or wait until spring??
 

Frisbee 

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Hmmmm I was in a similar position myself last year. If you requeen in the autumn you can potentially spend all winter worrying if they are going to make it - well you do anyway but having just spent xxx£s on a new queen............need I go on? On the other hand if you wait till spring there will be none left by the time you discover if the colony has made it and you will only get one for May or early June. Course you can order and pay for an early delivery but then can be caught between the devil (will they make it?) and the deep blue sea (will it be warm enough to open up when she arrives?)
I opted to buy one in the autumn, spent all winter worrying, but all was well, they built up in the nice warm spring we had and has been my best producer.

Frisbee
 

admin 

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The queen you have will be a swarmy type as well.
If it was me I would requeen before the winter.
 

Crg 

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I opted to buy one in the autumn, spent all winter worrying, but all was well, they built up in the nice warm spring we had and has been my best producer.
So you requeened in autumn and it turned out well (as I'd expect) but you're still recommending to someone else not to do that? ;)

I do my requeening about now.
 

Frisbee 

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So you requeened in autumn and it turned out well (as I'd expect) but you're still recommending to someone else not to do that? ;)
I don't recall recommending anything, I ran through the options, the thoughts that went through my mind last autumn and then said what I did. Perhaps you mis-read my post?

Frisbee
 

bobandbec 

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My personal opinion is not to "mess" with queenright colonies at this time of the year unless there is a real need to do so, old queen etc.. If she is a demon though it could be worth the risk, but save her in a nuc anyway just as backup in case the new queen isn't accepted.

Peter
 

Crg 

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I don't recall recommending anything, I ran through the options, the thoughts that went through my mind last autumn and then said what I did. Perhaps you mis-read my post?
After rereading your post a bit more carefully it seems I did, possibly because worrying about whether some swarmy aggressive colony makes it through winter isn't really something I would do.

I would requeen from strong gentle stock so that I start the next year off well, and probably increase the chances of the colony making it through the winter at the same time.
 

Frisbee 

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possibly because worrying about whether some swarmy aggressive colony makes it through winter isn't really something I would do.
I didn't say that I had a swarmy aggressive colony either and peteinwilts wasn't worrying about getting them through the winter.................

You may say that you wouldn't worry, but if you've only got one or two stocks and are a relative beginner then you do worry and you shouldn't underestimate or make light of a beginner problem just because you are more experienced. It doesn't matter how many books they read, beginners have no background of experience to fall back on when things stray out of the realms of normal, which is why a forum like this is so useful.

I actually did both, I requeened one colony in the autumn and left one as there was some concern to it getting through the winter as at one of the last inspections the queen wasn't laying, so I went through the shall I order a queen now in the autumn (for spring), running the risk of the colony not being there in the spring or it being to cold to open up when she arrives and then when the colony does get through (the winter), no queens are available till the end of May, so was merely running through the options............

Frisbee
 

peteinwilts 

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My personal opinion is not to "mess" with queenright colonies at this time of the year unless there is a real need to do so, old queen etc.. If she is a demon though it could be worth the risk, but save her in a nuc anyway just as backup in case the new queen isn't accepted.

Peter
Saving the old queen in a NUC is a good idea. Should this be taken 3+ miles away or can it be kept on the same site.

Anyone got a numpty's ABC guide to create a NUC and requeening a hive?
 

peteinwilts 

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queen acquired (thanks Mike!)

Will be moving her in this afternoon...
 

jezd 

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Saving the old queen in a NUC is a good idea. Should this be taken 3+ miles away or can it be kept on the same site.

Anyone got a numpty's ABC guide to create a NUC and requeening a hive?
Sounds like you have sorted this now but it depends on the potential of your main hive (ie how many frames with brood and stores). Assuming you are creating a 5 frame nuc from a strong hive, take 2 frames of brood with lots of young bees (and the old queen on one) and 2 frames of good stores and place in Nuc with stores on the outside, on one side I would slip in a 5th empty frame between the stores and the brood - ideally already drawn out foundation. In the main hive that is now queenless I would close together the frames so that the left over brood is still in the centre with its young bees and all the older flying bees, again I would drop in one frame of new foundation between the stores and brood to give the bees something to do. I would then leave them for at least one day without a queen and then look at running a mated queen in via a cage with delay plug.

I think....lol

At present I am doing this in volume from multiple hives and a new queen, ie creating 5 frames nucs sourced from 3 hives, I take 1 frame of brood with bees from 2 separate hives and then a frame of stores from a third hive with a few bees too. Whatever hive supplied the least bees (normally the stores supplier) is then swapped with the new Nuc so that it get the older flying bees too. I let them settle before inserting new foundation between the brood and the stores, the bees in the Nuc will eventually create QC's but these can be knocked out and a queen run in over the following week.

I should add that the my bees are being feed on the heather (plenty of nectar) or with sugar syrup if this is not possible - this is just how I do it. I would not do this unless they had feed to keep expending and a young queen laying too.

Jez
 
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WaxManSmokerBoy 

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CRG; it was Admin who says swarmy. Do he know the bees of Peteinwilts?
The queen you have will be a swarmy type as well.
If it was me I would requeen before the winter.
Good advice. Same Frisby says, but says of his thoughts and worrys.
No person says aggressive (angry?) bees.

Mucho abrazo :grouphug:
WMSB
 

Crg 

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CRG; it was Admin who says swarmy. Do he know the bees of Peteinwilts?
Peleinwilts said the bees were ex-swarm, ie bees that have proven they will swarm. That's why I (and Admin) refered to them as swarmy bees.

No person says aggressive (angry?) bees.
Any other reason why Peleinwilts will be finding them unpleasant to be around?
 

peteinwilts 

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I think I know why they were so angry. Red Ants were crawling up the legs and finding ways in.

The New queen has settled in (thanks for the queen and the advice Mike, No. 35 has settled in nicely! :cheers2: )

I moved the old queen with a few frames to a new hive, and although they are not passifists, they have calmed down considerably.

I have treated another stand with concrete water sealant and will be painting the legs with anti-burglar paint and swapping them over on Saturday! :hat:
 

Eyeman 

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5 frames nucs sourced from 3 hives, I take 1 frame of brood with bees from 2 separate hives and then a frame of stores from a third hive with a few bees too.
Jez is it true that if you unite 3 or more different 'colonies' of bees they wont fight?
 

Hombre 

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Mixing bees from three or more hives causes confusion and no common enemy. By the time they have got themselves sorted out they will all get along just fine.
I believe that commercially on a large scale, frames minus bees are quickly assembled and the bees combined and given a short blast of CO2 to render them unconscious/quiet. these bees are poured together into a big container and poured into the Nucs. As they wake up and shake themselves off, they don't fight.

I'm open to contradiction. I guess Jezd has been buzzy.
 
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