requeen bad hive

[Heather]

Hint I heard at a meeting- maybe you already discussed.
If you have a bad tempered hive that is throwing queen cells- you dont want her progeny so dump her, remove all queen cells and when they start to make any new queen cell remove the larvae from each and graft a new larvae from a good hive into each one. Anyone tried this?

 

[Poly Hive]

In a word no.

If you are running mating nucs in the active season part of the rationale for doing it is to have suitable queens to hand.

If your hive is as you describe is too early in the season I would unite to a good one and split later when suitable queens are available.

What's to say you damage the larvae you are grafting in and you lose yet more time and bees and production. A lot of faff for no gain TBH.

PH

 

[Russel]

Heather if you have a "bad" colony that needs re-queening then iirc you will also need to remove any drones that queen has produced, as they will pass her traits on.

 

[Heather]

This came from Roger P.
Drones will be from many colonies anyway

 

[Tom Bick]

You could also after removing all queen cells and the hive with no available eggs then introduce a frame with eggs from a less grumpy hive.

 

[fatshark]

Of course, they always build QCs in the most convenient positions making the grafting -or removal of unwanted larvae - straightforward. NOT.

 

[Heather]

Of course, they always build QCs in the most convenient positions making the grafting -or removal of unwanted larvae - straightforward. NOT.

Well not always.
I can graft larvae that bit is easy, especially with a fine paint brush- but usually into unprepared cells artificial or wax mould- but I just thought if there were sensibly built early queen cell positions with the primed coat of royal jelly it may be a head start - didst seem a totally silly idea and one I hadn't considered before,
I am going to have queen rearing apideas etc next year - but this was just for a bad queen decent colony unit

 

[victor meldrew]

I'd go for a frame from a colony of desired qualities
After all, grafting can't save more than a day of two ?
VM

 

[Luminos]

Isn't grafting just making hard work of it?
(O.K, coat, leaving, etc etc...)

 

[susbees]

Well not always.
I can graft larvae that bit is easy, especially with a fine paint brush- but usually into unprepared cells artificial or wax mould- but I just thought if there were sensibly built early queen cell positions with the primed coat of royal jelly it may be a head start - didst seem a totally silly idea and one I hadn't considered before,
I am going to have queen rearing apideas etc next year - but this was just for a bad queen decent colony unit

I agree that wet grafting with a paint brush is relatively easy and I prefer it to a Chinese tool or steel tool but this is really not the issue here.

By the time most inexperienced beekeepers seem get around to requeening a colony for temper the situation is already out of hand - especially for those lacking several layers of clothes and gloves - neighbours, passers by, animals.

So the sooner the better for requeening, not hanging around for a possible new queen by grafting which will involve revisiting the colony with its stingy bees to remove excess cells etc. Not the greatest start to a queen rearing foray.

 

[oliver90owner]

Susbees has it sussed (sorry for the pun). If you wait for swarm cells in your nasty colony, there will almost certainly be drones on the wing from that colony. That is one fairly sure way to know that swarming is not on the immediate agenda - no drone cells, no swarming yet.

As PH said, uniting and later splitting could be a better ploy. You could simply induce supercedure cells before splitting. Swarming, and getting new queens mated was a problem in May this year, remember (so don't necessarily 'dump' her immediately -removing to a nuc would be insurance).

All may depend on the forage around - a strong colony on OSR will do well, all other things being equal, and inducing queen cells (demaree) followed by splitting before the OSR fades away can be a good move. The strategy needs to be thought out at the time, not planned months in advance. Keep all options open and choose the best/easiest/most appropriate at the time.

For those with only the one colony, there is a simple problem - no alternative than outside help. For these, they need to cast around and see if anyone local has any queen cells in their hives. Then the problem may be overcome (yes, only 'may' as the new queen may not be any better than the removed item!).

RAB

 

[fatshark]

Grafting INTO a QC in the unpleasant colony will also mean removing the frame - presumably mixed eggs/brood/stores or whatever - getting all those nasty bees off it, taking it down the field/to the shed/into the car (delete as appropriate, but remember the followers) then holding the entire thing upside down while you fiddle with the paintbrush and desired larvae. It's also possibly a one or two chance option, unless there are loads of new QC's on the frame ... in which case you can guarantee there will be others in the colony you'll miss, that will emerge earlier and that will slaughter your carefully grafted ones.

What a palaver. I'm with Susbees on this ... minimise exposure to the unpleasant colony by dealing with them promptly (perhaps uniting), or dealing with them once (dequeen and introduce a mated queen from elsewhere).