Repeat Oxalic vaporising - but with honey on the hive?

[Arfermo]

I thought that it was supposed to be done in winter, no honey, no brood?

Not necessarily only in winter. Treatment in some swarm situations is sometimes advisable/useful.

 

[Nige.Coll]

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You cannot push bees from 3 supers into brood box in the middle of summer gor repeated fuming.

It is better to find better treatment method. I told one.
.

Common sense again. Put an empty super above the brood box.

Added
Never found repeat treatment is needed in summer.

 

[Arfermo]

Absolute utter rubbish!
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/144627.html

As little as 15g ingested can cause death by kidney failure.
Lower doses will cause joint pain from calcium oxalate formation.

So you think 15g can get into a pot of honey I suppose. Ridiculously pointless remark in the context of the original question. Why the hell do posters on this forum so frequently deviate from the primary topic so often - posting to boost statistical credits again?

 

[Finman]

.
But those
Tupla]

 

[Obee1]

Common sense again. Put an empty super above the brood box.

Added
Never found repeat treatment is needed in summer.

I can't believe this thread- I agree with you nige - remove the supers and replace with sacrificial empty ones. Treat the hive then when all done and dusted put your proper supers back. Simples.

 

[wessexmario]

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But those researches were connected to trickling method to verify that it is safe to human health.

It is very different method to cover the hive interior with oxalic acid fog during yield season and repeated time. Those chemical methods are meant to use when honey crop is out if hive, including formic acid and thymol.

I wonder who is so brave that he would recommend repeated vaporising in the middle of summer?

If you read the posts in this thread, you'll find that we just have.

Lethal dose: 15gm
Daily dose by eating a 30gm portion of spinach or rhubarb: 0.3gm
Daily dose by eating 8 spoons of honey that was in the hive while oxalic applied: 0.003gm

Not necessary, but if you want to avoid any doubt, just take the supers off or fit an escape board for a few hours while applying oxalic and the risk is then negligible.

My advice is to always add honey if you're cooking rhubarb.

 

[Cussword]

It was originally but such is the residual effect you can vape three times at five day intervals and get most of the mites if you have brood.

Not getting involved with the brawl.

What is the reason for a five day interval?

 

[Arfermo]

If you read the posts in this thread, you'll find that we just have.

Lethal dose: 15gm
Daily dose by eating a 30gm portion of spinach or rhubarb: 0.3gm
Daily dose by eating 8 spoons of honey that was in the hive while oxalic applied: 0.003gm

Take the supers off or fit an escape board for a few hours while applying oxalic and the risk is negligible.

My advice is to always add honey if you're cooking rhubarb.

Yeah to that!!!! End of..........?

 

[wessexmario]

Not getting involved with the brawl.

Good policy - but I prefer to think this is a scientific discussion, not a brawl.
I'm happy for anyone to show numbers that disprove my assertions.

What is the reason for a five day interval?

There will be a population of mites in the sealed brood cells, worker and drone cells being sealed for just under 15 days.
Allowing for continuous emergence of both brood and mites, applying 3 times at 5 day intervals means that during the treatment period the maximum number of mites in the phoretic stage will be exposed to the treatment.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Not getting involved with the brawl.

What is the reason for a five day interval?

The five day interval is about the brood cycle in the hive and varroa life cycle and timing treatment to catch the most varroa.


Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[Cussword]

There will be a population of mites in the sealed brood cells, worker and drone cells being sealed for just under 15 days.
Allowing for continuous emergence of both brood and mites, applying 3 times at 5 day intervals means that during the treatment period the maximum number of mites in the phoretic stage will be exposed to the treatment.

Thanks Mario, it is so obvious when it's explained.

Oops, thanks to Nige too.

 

[wessexmario]

See paras 15 (lethal dose) & 17,18 (natural oxalic in honey and diet):

http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB...sidue_Limits_-_Report/2009/11/WC500015217.pdf

 

[Finman]

I'm happy for anyone to show numbers that disprove my assertions.



T.

His famous last words...

What about all scientific research around oxalic acid & varroa during last 20 years?

Somebody Help British Beekeeping Beginners! H.B.B.B.

 

[Finman]

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New term: Natural lethal dose in honey, milli equivalents! I can name some forum members.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Let's do some maths...

say a dose of 1gm of oxalic is vapourised.
say 25% is absorbed into the 3 honey supers.

A super holds 25lb of honey so there will be 0.25gm in 75lb of honey,
which is 0.003gm of oxalic in a 1lb jar

That concentration is 0.003/454*100 = 0.0006608% by weight

To allow for variations in concentration (although the honey extraction & filtering process will tend to physically mix the oxalic more evenly) say the concentration in any one jar could be 20x the average.

There are approx 64 teaspoons of honey in a 1lb jar.
Given that an average daily consumption is no more than a few spoons of honey per day per person, say daily consumption is 8 teaspoons, or 0.125lb.

That concentration of oxalic in honey is 0.0006608% by weight
or 8 teaspoons would give a daily consumption of 0.003g of oxalic.

Would that be dangerous?
or not worth worryng about?

The natural concentration of oxalic acid (oxalates) based on fresh weight in spinach is 0.3-1.2%, in rhubarb 0.2-1.3%, in tea 0.3-2.0%, and in cocoa 0.5-0.9%

lots of non-experimental assumptions but even if my numbers are a factor of 1,000 out, it wouldn't be any more concentrated than in spinach or rhubarb.

A beneficial side effect of stewing rhubarb is it leaves your pan gleaming

 

[Thymallus]

A beneficial side effect of stewing rhubarb is it leaves your pan gleaming

Perhaps but it is rhubarb leaves that contain high levels of oxalic acid, not the stems. I seem to recall there were problems with poisoning during 1st(?) world war when leaves where recommended for eating. But as rhubarb leaves contain other toxins it probably wasn't just the OA content.

 

[wessexmario]

Perhaps but it is rhubarb leaves that contain high levels of oxalic acid, not the stems. I seem to recall there were problems with poisoning during 1st(?) world war when leaves where recommended for eating. But as rhubarb leaves contain other toxins it probably wasn't just the OA content.

The oxalic concentration in the leaves is only twice that in the stalks, it's not the oxalic in rhubarb that will make you ill.

 

[Thymallus]

I thought that was what I said.
But are you talking rhubarb stems or leaves for making you ill?
As it's the leaves where the nasties are concentrated.

 

[Finman]

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What is the best recipe when you guys make food from rhubarb leaves?

 

[beebot]

I do not need to convince you. . As you see, I never ask here anything because I know how to nurse hives. I have had varroa 30 years in my hives. But I do not put chemicals into hives during yield period.

Listen now. You have a problem and it is not my problem. Do not bite helper's hand. You are not so important that you may bark on me because you are a member of British Empire.

i have copied those researches 20 times during years into this forum. And I gove already the keywords in this thread: "Agrolink oxalic acid". And Thymallys copied too those main results.

Problem is that if I have given an internet link 2 years ago, mostly it is not there any more.

I toggle with smartphone and this is laborous Job. IT changes words like mad.
I am not anybodys servant.

Learn to respect those who knows better. A free advice to high class citizen.

Agrolink oxalic acid. Google it!

You are so predictable and this is wasting my time.
You are simply arrogant (and at time quite obnoxious).