Reducing brood box volume for small colonies in cold weather?

[Salamagundy]

When I trickled oxalic acid about a week ago a couple of hives were down to three or four seams of bees.

I wondered at the time if it might be a good idea to reduce the volume they have to keep warm by taking out some empty frames and putting in a piece of insulation until the first Spring inspection. I didn't in the end, opting to keep disruption to a minimum. It was minus 5 here last night with more cold weather forecast.

Do you intervene or just leave them to it? Thanks for any comments.

 

[oliver90owner]

Messing around with colonies at those temperatures was likely to more harm than good, so I would not have done that. If the brood box was full in the autumn, there should be very few really empty frames by now.

If clustered on one side only, removing a frame and replacing with a divider may have helped, but done when appropriate. The empty space is only that above the cluster; any below is irrelevant.

With a full 14 x 12 in the autumn, I don't interfere until spring expansion time. If it's a small colony and needing fondant, they will be near the crownboard anyway.

 

[Skyhook]

I would be tempted to- but not if it means opening in cold weather, the milder spell would have been the time.

You don't say what configuration you have them in- if they have some bottom ventilation eg OMF, I would look to have plenty of insulation on top, which can be added without disturbing them assuming they have a crownboard.

 

[drstitson]

do you mean empty = no stores or empty = no bees????

BIG difference.

 

[Finman]

.
Wait for better weathers. Spring build up at least needs that extra wall.
You must make sure too that there are food inside those walls.

 

[enrico]

IMHO leave well alone, you will do more harm than good. They will start to expand soon anyway! The only thing to do is to add fondant if necessary.
E

 

[Dishmop]

I certainly wouldnt open the hive but would stand things around the hive to cut down any heat loss caused by wind. Consensus of opinion, if I remember correctly, is that if you attach anything to the hive walls, such as insulation, you are likely to cause condensation between the insulation and the hive. Not sure if the same applies if you were to screw another layer of wood on tho.

 

[busybee53]

OP has a point. I have seen clips of colonies dummied down for the winter, i.e. the bees are on fewer frames with a dummy board separating them from the rest of the empty brood box. Presumably this is so they do not have to keep the larger space warm.

When the weather is warm enough in late autumn my colonies seem too big to squash up like that. Plus I took the view that they would need all their brood frames to put stores in which would then also act as extra insulation at the sides of the broodnest.

Do others dummy down for winter? If so, when and how, and what are your reasons for doing this?

 

[Finman]

They will start to expand soon anyway!

Surely not. It takes lots of time that hives start to expand

But Salama has 6 hives. Wait that big hives start to get emerging brood frames. Then give the weakest hives one frames and it is best aid to weak hives.


.

 

[MuswellMetro]

OP has a point. I have seen clips of colonies dummied down for the winter, i.e. the bees are on fewer frames with a dummy board separating them from the rest of the empty brood box. Presumably this is so they do not have to keep the larger space warm.

When the weather is warm enough in late autumn my colonies seem too big to squash up like that. Plus I took the view that they would need all their brood frames to put stores in which would then also act as extra insulation at the sides of the broodnest.

Do others dummy down for winter? If so, when and how, and what are your reasons for doing this?

I've dummied two 14x12 down to 8 frames, still more room than a standard national, smaller colonies that i could have combined but would have meant moving one of them to the others apairy, 50mm Kingspan dummy boards either side

 

[Erichalfbee]

Put the inspection tray in?

 

[Salamagundy]

Many thanks for all your comments and suggestions.

Think they'll have to stay as they are. They have OMFs, fondant above the crownboard, 50mm Kingspan above that, 25mm Kingspan in the recesses on two sides of the box and are wrapped in breathable roofing membrane. Fingers now crossed that they make it through until I can try to build them up as Finman suggests.

 

[thorn]

Many thanks for all your comments and suggestions.

Think they'll have to stay as they are. They have OMFs, fondant above the crownboard, 50mm Kingspan above that, 25mm Kingspan in the recesses on two sides of the box and are wrapped in breathable roofing membrane. Fingers now crossed that they make it through until I can try to build them up as Finman suggests.

I didn't know Rohan sold hives.

 

[enrico]

Many thanks for all your comments and suggestions.

Think they'll have to stay as they are. They have OMFs, fondant above the crownboard, 50mm Kingspan above that, 25mm Kingspan in the recesses on two sides of the box and are wrapped in breathable roofing membrane. Fingers now crossed that they make it through until I can try to build them up as Finman suggests.

Blimey, talk about pampered. Mine are in a single thickness wooden hive doing what bees do best, overwintering!
E

 

[oliver90owner]

Blimey, talk about pampered....

Yes, but yours were likely a strong colony, still are, have plenty of stores and have not been treated with oxalic. Just like most of mine.

 

[Salamagundy]

I didn't know Rohan sold hives.

Blimey, talk about pampered. Mine are in a single thickness wooden hive doing what bees do best, overwintering!
E

Is Rohan the outdoor clothing manufacturer? I wear £4.00 jeans from T*sco. (Oops - now waiting for jibes about using supermarkets and exploiting child labour in the Third World! )

The materials were left over from a building project - thought they were better put to use than taken to a landfill site. Given the inconclusive debate about wood vs polyhives I thought it was a good compromise....

Is it only beginners, trying to get weak colonies through the winter, that wrap up their hives?

Hope I'll learn to be more 'hands-off' as I get more experience, Enrico.

 

[Skyhook]

Many thanks for all your comments and suggestions.

Think they'll have to stay as they are. They have OMFs, fondant above the crownboard, 50mm Kingspan above that, 25mm Kingspan in the recesses on two sides of the box and are wrapped in breathable roofing membrane. Fingers now crossed that they make it through until I can try to build them up as Finman suggests.

Sounds good to me.

 

[thorn]

Is Rohan the outdoor clothing manufacturer? I wear £4.00 jeans from T*sco. (Oops - now waiting for jibes about using supermarkets and exploiting child labour in the Third World! )

Yes, the Rohan adverts suggest that their clothing is waterproof, breathable and perfectly insulated. Sounds just like your hive.

 

[Salamagundy]

Yes, the Rohan adverts suggest that their clothing is waterproof, breathable and perfectly insulated. Sounds just like your hive.

Sounds a bit better than the Army Surplus greatcoat I wear at the moment!

Might treat myself to a Rohan jacket when the bee account goes into the black - on current projections that should be around 2030.