Rebate with router table

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SixFooter 

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I bought a router table with a built in router for cutting rebates so I can make my own supers. Now I have it, I'm not sure what bit I should get. Do I need a rabetting bit or a straight cutting bit? Does the fact that I have a fence to run the wood against mean I just need a straight cutter? And what size? Can the rebate be made in one pass?
 
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Like many things, it all depends....

I'm no expert when it comes to routers but I have used mine when making supers. When cutting rebates I just use a straight cutter and set the fence to the required distance and start to cut the rebate. Depending on the size of your router you might be able to make the rebate in a single pass but be prepared to make a couple of passes at different depths/fence settings to get the width and depth you need. The depth and width of cuts you make with your router will be dictated by the size and type of timber you use and by the type of router you have. My router is overkill (2100W motor) for supers but it was bought to do a little work in hardwood and will cut at full depth in oak.

It may work out cheaper to buy a set of router bits ; the sets work out cheaper than buying individual bits and this is the route I took. This woros for me as i get use of all the bits in the set from time to time. On the other hand if you buy a set of bits, you may then end up with some that you never use and so it might be just as well to buy a good 19mm/3/4" bit and a spare. Trend bits seem to work fine for me but likeyourself, i'd be open to recommendations on good brands of router bits to purchase.
 
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pbh4 

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I bought a 3/4" router bit from Axminster Tools for about £6. Oddly the almost identical 19mm bits the sell are 3 times the price!

Paul

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oliver90owner 

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A simple tip for taking several cuts (well,more than one) is to have a dummy fence or dummy table bed, so the machine is set for full depth and the work piece is simply kept away from the frence/table for the more shallow cut(s). On the table is likely easier as a sheet with a-stop bar fitted under is easier to secure.

Question of max depth at a time might be dependent on machine power (I have 600,1400 and 2000W machines), but also size of router collet (either 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2 inch and in metric 6,8 or 12mm) The shank of the cutter purchased must match the collet used - you should not try to mix imperial and metric, here, even though close).

Like most things, I am not an expert on routing techniques, although in a previous life I have machined windows, staircases and a myriad of other items. Rae seems to be one of the woodworking experts on the forum, although there will be others.

You will find your router and table can be used for most woodworking operations, including 'planing' to thickness and sizing, if you really need to. You will be able to knock out box jointed supers as well, should you wish to. They are a very versatile tool indeed. Have a look on the Wealden(?) site for Wally's(?) tips etc., among others.

You will find the cut you can do in one pass by trial and error. Don't make your router work too hard, don't make the cutter vibrate too much, and ensure a reasonable feed rate (or burned wood will be the result). Buy tungsten carbide cutters preferably, but you need to be more caring as they are less forgiving than high speed steel cutters.

Have fun, but be safe. I hope the kit came with eye protection and the means for finger protection, too.

Regards, RAB
 

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A simple tip for taking several cuts (well,more than one) is to have a dummy fence or dummy table bed, so the machine is set for full depth and the work piece is simply kept away from the frence/table for the more shallow cut(s).

Regards, RAB
Oh I like this.

Thanks. I've ordered a 3/4 " bit.
 

steve's bees 

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I bought a router table with a built in router for cutting rebates so I can make my own supers. Now I have it, I'm not sure what bit I should get. Do I need a rabetting bit or a straight cutting bit? Does the fact that I have a fence to run the wood against mean I just need a straight cutter? And what size? Can the rebate be made in one pass?
Hi you sound like you have had very little experience with this type of machinery. I would advise you to take a course in using this type of machinery or at least find some one local to you who can teach you as fingers are not easily replaced. I would hate to here a fellow beek has happened something.

Steve
 

rae 

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Hardly an expert....

What sort of rebates are you cutting in supers? The only rebates I cut are the thin locating slots in the long sides that the short sides locate into. In which case your router bit should be the width of your planks, and the depth should be a few mill - you can make it whatever you want, just cut the short sides to length. These rebates can be cut in one hit, even with a 700W 1/4" router. You need a straight cut bit.

If you are hogging out the handholds with a router, then you need to find a different technique! You'll generate a mountain of chips, you'll trash the blade very quickly and you'll be there for hours. I've heard of people doing this, but it is a REALLY expensive way of making supers.

There is a thread somewhere in the depths of the DIY board that shows me doing this. here:

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7989
 

Nic Rhodes 

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What router table did you buy? We are about to build a garage (for bee / garden bits) and am looking for a router table (for my hand router), work bench and table saw to add to what I have already. Looking at Axminster and Rutlands currently.
 
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Hello

This is my first post in nearly a year following being severly Pxxxed off with a response by the ignorant Toxxer who regularly "subscribes" to this otherwise fine forum.

Moving on........................... (and I am)

My big advice would be dont bother with eye protection but invest in a face screen. Axminster used to do one for about 10 quid and depending on how much you like your face the way it was before you started.................

Secondly, a bit like wearing the appropriate bee-keeping suit, the right head gear for routing improves the confidence which can greatly assist if you are a learner? It does not help to get the heebie -jeebies when the noise goes mega decibel or the ultra rattles set in. The advice to get a knowledgeable person to guide you is excellent?

Thirdly - the sound advice I found on the woodworking forum was to try Wealdon Tool for cutters. Not only have I found their cutters to be surperb in terms of price/quality/postage, their sales team stepped it up today when I rang them with an enquiry for an old ebay purchase ELU dovetail jig. The sales support chappie ploughed through old Trend catalogues back to 1984 in order to come up with the right bit! Not only that, he said when narrowing the solution down to two possibles that I could return the unused one for credit. Don't hear that much these days

Good luck with it and remember to hang onto your fingers.


Regards


FB
 

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Hi you sound like you have had very little experience with this type of machinery. I would advise you to take a course in using this type of machinery or at least find some one local to you who can teach you as fingers are not easily replaced. I would hate to here a fellow beek has happened something.

Steve
Thanks, but I think I'll be OK. Never used a router table, but have used
1) Hand held router
2) Circular saw
3) Track saw
4) Jig saw
5) Power fret saw
6) Planer
7) Jointer
8) Chop saw
9) Radial arm saw
10) Chain saw ( A really dangerous 2 stroke one)
11) Soldering iron
12) Breaker
13) Concrete mixer
14) lawn mowers
15) Brush cutter
16) Angle grinder
17) Tile cutting saw
18) Mig Welder

Other things as well.

Not really worried, but I've counted my fingers and at the moment, I have 10. I'll count them again after I used the router table. I've arranged for my local hospital to be on standby and they have got in extra blood supplies.

Thanks for your concern though.
 

SixFooter 

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Hardly an expert....

What sort of rebates are you cutting in supers? The only rebates I cut are the thin locating slots in the long sides that the short sides locate into. In which case your router bit should be the width of your planks, and the depth should be a few mill - you can make it whatever you want, just cut the short sides to length. These rebates can be cut in one hit, even with a 700W 1/4" router. You need a straight cut bit.

If you are hogging out the handholds with a router, then you need to find a different technique! You'll generate a mountain of chips, you'll trash the blade very quickly and you'll be there for hours. I've heard of people doing this, but it is a REALLY expensive way of making supers.

There is a thread somewhere in the depths of the DIY board that shows me doing this. here:

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7989
I've been makling my own boxes for a while from 18mm plywood and softwood rails. Up to now, I've cut the rebates in the rails using a circular saw, but I thought it might be easier with a router table. Your pictures dont show the rails. Do they
 

Poly Hive 

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If you think of your router table as an upside down table saw with the same limitations, ie power and depth issues then you will be fine with it.

I too would suggest a box of bits, trend were a good make and hopefully still are.

Noise is for sure an issue as is dust. I had mine hooked up to a dust extractor.

Very versatile machine the router and with a dove tail guide.... awesome.

PH
 

oliver90owner 

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[B...an upside down table saw with the same limitations,...[/B]

I can certainly imagine a few limitations with an upside down table saw!

A router in or out of a table is far more versatile than a saw. And one of my routers is half way between - it is mounted horizontally.

Forget the box of cutters, is my advice. Initially a good idea, but better IMO to make a box for cutters and collect only those you need. To just cut rebates would leave all the rest of the cutters unused. Unless, of course you want to round over edges, add a few ovolo or ogee or other decorations to the hive.

Like Fred above, I find Wealden a more than satisfactory source for cutters and information.
 

rae 

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Ah, OK, the rebates in the rails. Forgot about the rails! A lot of people seem to make them out of two strips, thus avoiding the rebate problem. I've used a table saw and a router to do these in the past, router is easier and probably safer, especially if in a router table. The same straight cut bit will do the do fine, I do these in 2 passes, one at about 70% of the depth, the next at 30%.

On cutters - I'd avoid big "sets" like the plague, and get a small number of decent cutters as you need them. CMT do a really good "ply jointing" cutter - you can get 18, 12, and 6 mm, you can buy them as a set which is worth it if you are going to use the smaller ones. For "bee joinery", the 18 mil is all you need. Those massive boxes of "40 cutters for £40" are made of cheese and I wouldn't trust them at 20K rpm - I'd up the face mask suggestion and get a suit of armour.

On the safety side, ear defenders certainly. The only other thing I worry about is kickback - if the wood comes towards you at a great speed, where will your fingers be?
 

Poly Hive 

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I used a push stick to keep my digits well out the way.

One does need to think about dust protection as it can be seriously evil. I used a 3M good quality dust mask as well as having a dust extractor, a big one, sucking from the back of the cutter area. Some dusts are carcinogenic, which makes them that much more serious.

PH
 
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Winker 

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My tupence worth.

Don't try and do your cut in one single pass, do 2 or 3 small cuts to get to your required depth. Always use a bit of wood larger than you need as you may find the ends splinter when you get near them and if it the wood is larger than needed these splintered ends can be cut off latter.


Fingers and Thumbs! Keep them well back from the router bit, try and use a stick to push your wood rather than let your fingers get too close. I seen one lad lose 2 fingers in the blink of an eye on a router table, and he knew what he was doing. Unlike a saw, routered fingers don't sow back together to well.



Try using wood without knots in the bit you want to router, you will be amazed at how fast the wood comes back at you when the router hits a hard knot.

Do a few practice cuts before you start your project for real, so you know what to expect when the machine starts cutting.
 

Tdf 

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I've been makling my own boxes for a while from 18mm plywood and softwood rails. Up to now, I've cut the rebates in the rails using a circular saw, but I thought it might be easier with a router table. Your pictures dont show the rails. Do they
thought of using a circular saw before but thought it might be dangerous, how do you find it?
 

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