Real honey at RHS Wisley,

[ericbeaumont]

Surely not when they say clearly that it has been added
E

Added confusion, perhaps. This reminds me of the misguided attempt by the EU in 2011 to classify pollen as an added ingredient (DM, here). Eventually they backtracked, but the debate will not have helped the public perception of purity.

I believe that much pollen retailed in the UK comes from Eastern Europe, and having rung Hilltop just now, discovered that their pollen (direct quote) is indeed from Poland and Eastern Europe and is non-GMO.

If a UK beekeeper selling UK honey adds European pollen, then the least he could do is label it as such. By his failure to do so, the customer may leap to conclude that both honey and pollen are the produce of Surrey.

 

[enrico]

I buy raw milk. Straight from the cow with no messing! There is legislation for that. It can only be sold from the farm that produces it. Sounds like a good idea for honey!!!!

 

[Popparand]

I buy raw milk. Straight from the cow with no messing! There is legislation for that. It can only be sold from the farm that produces it. Sounds like a good idea for honey!!!!

Straight from the cow? Must be awfully messy. How do you get the cow to stand still while you're lying on your back underneath it? Just asking.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I buy raw milk. Straight from the cow with no messing! There is legislation for that. It can only be sold from the farm that produces it. Sounds like a good idea for honey!!!!

Yes, that would sort it out. Downside is that (a) an organisation must be found to work to pass the legislation, and (b) it would mean registration and paperwork for beekeepers.

 

[Ian123]

[QUOTE If a UK beekeeper selling UK honey adds European pollen, then the least he could do is label it as such. By his failure to do so, the customer may leap to conclude that both honey and pollen are the produce of Surrey.[/QUOTE]

Careful with that we are not aware if that is the case or not!!!

 

[enrico]

I was pleased to see a couple of decent looking local honeys when I was at RHS Wisley last night. (There was however another blend of eu and non eu honey on the bottom shelf.)

One of the labels had a note about beesmax.org ..... anyone knows anything about it?

Just out of interest how much is it going for?
The web site beesamax is actually quite interesting!
E

 

[Erichalfbee]

The web site beesamax is actually quite interesting!
E

I had a good look round too
This blue box thing to re stock the wild bee population; I presume they are putting these up in uninhabited areas?
I wonder how many likely nesting places there are in our remote woodlands. Lots I hope.
Putting them up anywhere near houses is maybe asking for trouble? Mind you, does swarming from poorly managed hives ( or even those well managed but missed swarms that we all do now and again) pose the same risk? Who knows?
I get swarms of black bees from the same direction every year. I put up bait hives in the garden in an effort to keep them away from my soffits and chimney. I once had to light my wood burner pretty sharpish on a scorching hot day after seeing lots of scouts round the chimney.

 

[ericbeaumont]

[QUOTE If a UK beekeeper selling UK honey adds European pollen, then the least he could do is label it as such. By his failure to do so, the customer may leap to conclude that both honey and pollen are the produce of Surrey.

Careful with that we are not aware if that is the case or not!!![/QUOTE]

True, Ian; I'll contact beesmax and find out.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Just out of interest how much is it going for?
The web site beesamax is actually quite interesting!
E

If I remember rightly the one with added pollen was £8 and the other one was £7.

The eu and non eu honey that was on the bottom shelf of the stand was going for £4 for 1/2 pound

 

[ericbeaumont]

Neil, the pollen packet in your photo is definitely Hilltop; I've emailed Beesmax to find out the origin of the pollen in the Surrey honey.

 

[Anduril]

I was pleased to see a couple of decent looking local honeys when I was at RHS Wisley last night. (There was however another blend of eu and non eu honey on the bottom shelf.)

One of the labels had a note about beesmax.org ..... anyone knows anything about it?

Did you see their hives? https://youtu.be/Fw00HjFTLDM

 

[Newbeeneil]

Did you see their hives? https://youtu.be/Fw00HjFTLDM

No! It was dark

 

[ericbeaumont]

Did you see their hives? https://youtu.be/Fw00HjFTLDM

I did, but wish I hadn't.

I'm pretty sure that those involved in the project have their hearts in the right place (though their argument and plans baffle me) but when you're putting hives on public display an effort is surely needed to present them better than the video showed. Bees seemed lovely, and we know bees don't care much about their container, but what a shambles of a hive.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I did, but wish I hadn't.

I'm pretty sure that those involved in the project have their hearts in the right place (though their argument and plans baffle me) but when you're putting hives on public display an effort is surely needed to present them better than the video showed. Bees seemed lovely, and we know bees don't care much about their container, but what a shambles of a hive.

 

[Poly Hive]

Oh dear me. Parts that don't marry up and black gloves, not to mention a voice over that is inaudible.

PH

 

[Buzzlodge]

Here's another one of theirs. Apparently they feel syrup all the time, to give the bees the energy to go out and collect the honey. I hope thats not the honey they sell!

And their method of disease control - add garlic to the syrup....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljPeIAo7ie0

I despair.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

My understanding of the regulations is that the following are definitions of various descriptions:

"baker’s honey” means honey that is suitable for industrial use or as an ingredient in another foodstuff which is then processed;
“blossom honey” and “nectar honey” mean honeys obtained from the nectar of plants;
“chunk honey” and “cut comb in honey” mean honeys which contain one or more pieces of comb honey;
“comb honey” means honey stored by bees in the cells of freshly built broodless combs or thin comb foundation sheets made solely of beeswax and sold in sealed whole combs or sections of such combs;
“drained honey” means honey obtained by draining de-capped broodless combs;
“extracted honey” means honey obtained by centrifuging de-capped broodless combs;
“filtered honey” means honey obtained by removing foreign inorganic or organic matters in such a way as to result in the significant removal of pollen;
“honeydew honey” means honey obtained mainly from excretions of plant sucking insects (Hemiptera) on the living part of plants or secretions of living parts of plants;
“pressed honey” means honey obtained by pressing broodless combs with or without the application of moderate heat not exceeding 45° Celsius.

So "raw" honey could be "extracted honey" or "blossom honey" or "nectar honey" or possible a couple of the other approved descriptions. Most supermarket honey would be described as 'filtered honey" (but never is) and probably most heather honey would be "pressed honey". I'm not sure the public would know what "honeydew honey" was and what we call cut comb is defined as "comb honey" In short, the 2015 Honey Regulations leave many of us confused as they do not use terms in common usage by beekeepers. I think the list of names above defines what each description means but there appears to be no requirement to use one of those descriptions on a label.

Furthermore, there does not appear to be any reference to the set of the honey - what used to be called "creamed honey" and now more commonly referred to as "soft set honey" does not get a mention that I can find.

The most important part of the regulations is the definition of honey:
"In these Regulations “honey” means the natural sweet substance produced by Apis mellifera bees from the nectar of plants or from secretions of living parts of plants or excretions of plant-sucking insects on the living parts of plants which the bees collect, transform by combining with specific substances of their own, deposit, dehydrate, store and leave in honeycombs to ripen and mature." This means you cannot adulterate honey with anything else nor can you feed the bees sugar during the season and extract those stores and sell it as honey.

What I'm not clear about is, if you were to add something to the honey like nuts or pollen, do other regulations apply that require ingredients to be listed and dietary information to be supplied, which beekeepers otherwise generally do not need to do. Schedule 1 paragraph 5 appears to be saying that if you add anything to the honey, you can no longer call it honey. Anybody know?

CVB

 

[Erichalfbee]

Here's another one of theirs. Apparently they feel syrup all the time, to give the bees the energy to go out and collect the honey. I hope thats not the honey they sell!

And their method of disease control - add garlic to the syrup....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljPeIAo7ie0

I despair.

Good grief!
I hope not too many of the public get to view this and consider this is “normal “ beekeeping.

 

[ericbeaumont]

The most important part of the regulations is the definition of honey: "In these Regulations “honey” means the natural sweet substance produced by Apis mellifera bees from the nectar of plants or from secretions of living parts of plants or excretions of plant-sucking insects on the living parts of plants which the bees collect, transform by combining with specific substances of their own, deposit, dehydrate, store and leave in honeycombs to ripen and mature." This means you cannot adulterate honey with anything else nor can you feed the bees sugar during the season and extract those stores and sell it as honey.

What I'm not clear about is, if you were to add something to the honey like nuts or pollen, do other regulations apply that require ingredients to be listed and dietary information to be supplied, which beekeepers otherwise generally do not need to do. Schedule 1 paragraph 5 appears to be saying that if you add anything to the honey, you can no longer call it honey. Anybody know?

If beekeepers aren't clear (which we are not ) then pity the public, who readily accept a retailer's fluid and mercenary definition. It could be argued two ways: that as honey contains pollen naturally, additional pollen need not to be included on the label; alternatively, that added products should be listed no matter what, so that the customer may decide.

The RHS Wisley honey label confuses the buyer because (a) the added ingredient is in small type on the side of the jar and (b) it states on the main label that it is harvested in the UK. Which? The honey, or both honey and pollen? I cannot think of a valid argument why the source of both should not be listed.

This poor labelling is another example of how a beekeeper, with a lack of intent but also by a lack of forethought and research, has made life difficult for other beekeepers by muddying the public perception of authentic UK honey.

 

[Murox]

If beekeepers aren't clear (which we are not ) then pity the public, who readily accept a retailer's fluid and mercenary definition. It could be argued two ways: that as honey contains pollen naturally, additional pollen need not to be included on the label; alternatively, that added products should be listed no matter what, so that the customer may decide.

The RHS Wisley honey label confuses the buyer because (a) the added ingredient is in small type on the side of the jar and (b) it states on the main label that it is harvested in the UK. Which? The honey, or both honey and pollen? I cannot think of a valid argument why the source of both should not be listed.

This poor labelling is another example of how a beekeeper, with a lack of intent but also by a lack of forethought and research, has made life difficult for other beekeepers by muddying the public perception of authentic UK honey.

Is not more to do with twisted and devious marketing speak that has been prevalent for several decades now?