Re-Queening nightmare

[Ginger19]

Having a bit of fun, all of my own doing. I only have 1 hive now after developing a reaction to stings (sting free for 4 years ).
This colony came in as a swarm 2-3 years ago, very placid so I thought why not...
On inspection roughly 5 weeks ago, I knew they were building up, there were sealed queen cells and I was surprised they had not swarmed. This is were it goes badly wrong, I tried to clip the queen and made a hash of it. I tore down the queen cells and let her wobble off. Went back in a week later. No sign of queen, no eggs or brood - but lots of Q cells. I thought they must have done the job I should have done and finished her.
Ordered a buckfast queen. Introduced her a week later, no eggs, no queen cells left intact within the hive, felt confident that it was hopeless queenless.

Went back in a week or more later hoping to see eggs and brood, nothing.. Went back in 3 or 4 days later, still nothing so decided to sieve the bees in search of a Queen, new or old. Couldn't find anything, also went through the supers.
I ordered a new Queen thinking that they just hadn't taken a shine to her. I also put a frame of eggs in from a nearby beek. I was too busy to check the test frame and so fast forward a week when the new Queen arrived. The test frame is full of sealed brood, but no Q cells at all - GULP!
So I went through the hive, with the new queen in her cage sat on top of the frames, to see if I could draw out the elusive queen to greet her. Plenty of agitation from the bees but no sign of another Queen. Went through the frames twice and also through the supers.
I have left the queen in position, between the frames, caged up, tab in place. That was yesterday..

I am just not confident of pulling that tab. Please shout up with ideas and suggestions. Feel free to criticise my hopeless methods too, a lot is done at arms length wrapped up like a spaceman. I'm thinking it is maybe time to pack it in!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the bees not building EQC's on a test frame is not proof positive that the colony has a queen.
On the other hand, some introduced queens take a week or two to start laying.
Not much help I know but it's good to know these things.
If there is another queen in there, she won't be long dealing with the one in the cage. Personally, I would leave the tab in for a few days, check again for eggs (don't go through the palaver of demolishing the hive again) and if the bees seem fairly settled, pull the tab.
The worse that can happen is that two good bought in queens will sort it out between themselves.

 

[enrico]

Sometimes you can only try your best. You seem to have done that. Fingers crossed!
E

 

[beeno]

Hi Ginger, There is the possibility of a virgin being in there that has not yet started laying. Could you not seek assistance from the "nearby beek" to make up a temporary small nuc for your Q and/or to try to have another look through for a Q in your colony. Should not be a problem people like to show off! I would hate to think that you will lose another bought in queen. The beek in question can look through at his/her leisure without worrying about being stung - makes a lot of difference. Good luck.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

After being sting free for four years, you may have lost your immunity and have reacted as a result. You might find you don’t react much to the next one, with a bit of luck.

 

[Ginger19]

Thanks for the feedback. You forum is a lot friendlier than I recall..
To reply to the points raised..
Jenkins - I was going to do exactly that but I'm bothered if this carries on I will just end up packing in.
Beeno - I had thought about Virgin Queen. I don't do weekly inspections, just as I feel the need to take the plunge, first inspection a month later than most etc.. On a previous inspection there was a QC that was taken down, I thought aye aye. What occured? The queen which was aging at least 3 years old, very easy to find. I wonder if she was superseded with daughter in toe? If so, it was 2 months ago when the torn down cell was seen. So the newbie should be doing her job. Otherwise, maybe I missed tearing down a more recent QC and have a more recently hatched new Q. The reason I bought in a queen is because I know another guy on the allotment has a hive full of mentalists. Heaven forbid she mixes it with dudes from that hive. I think making up the Nuc is the best option to prevent losing another £40 and to ensure the Q I need ends up being in charge.

Enrico, thanks for the encouragement. I remember you as one of the friendly guys!

Poot, I have wondered many times where I am on the scale. I was fine until I got 2 stings a week apart. One to the chin, through the vail when bending down, couldn't remove stinger. The other when one got in through zip and got down my Tshirt to sting me on the chest, again took the full load. Ended up with the impending doom feeling and felt dreadful. Then a month later I got a sting on my ear when getting undressed at the car. Had the same reaction. Ideally my next sting is something lesser, through glove perhaps - so I can see where I am. I have an Epi-pen, just in case.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks for the feedback. You forum is a lot friendlier than I recall..

Enrico, thanks for the encouragement. I remember you as one of the friendly guys!

We are all friendly now
Good luck and let us know what happens.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

"Rich with hindsight", I know, but one colony is the wrong number even for sting avoidance (actually, this is a pretty good example why). As part of sorting this out, ending up with a "donor nuc" would be a nice side effect or aim. So for sure "pull that tab" but in a small split (hey: worst case, you've now halved or better your odds of a Game of Thrones).

Q introduction is a last resort for me now: so many supersedure swarms etc. Even a nuc combination is risky but less so, so don't beat yourself up. Good luck.

 

[Ginger19]

Ok, job done - Nuc made up, pulled the plug ..see how it goes..

Thanks to those who offered some advice!

PS - The reason for the single hive...I gave up my 4 hives a few years ago, but the next year decided I would set up an empty hive to lure a swarm - for a bit of fun and to give it away. When one arrived and I discovered they were ultra calm I kept them!

 

[pargyle]

Ok, job done - Nuc made up, pulled the plug ..see how it goes..

Thanks to those who offered some advice!

PS - The reason for the single hive...I gave up my 4 hives a few years ago, but the next year decided I would set up an empty hive to lure a swarm - for a bit of fun and to give it away. When one arrived and I discovered they were ultra calm I kept them!

#

You can always find an excuse to keep bees ... particularly free ones !

 

[Ginger19]

Ha ha, for sure!
I guess I wouldn't let go - even putting together an empty hive made me feel like I was still a beekeeper. I have 1 hive and 1 Nuc now, crazy!!

 

[whoosling]

Ok, job done - Nuc made up, pulled the plug ..see how it goes..

Thanks to those who offered some advice!

PS - The reason for the single hive...I gave up my 4 hives a few years ago, but the next year decided I would set up an empty hive to lure a swarm - for a bit of fun and to give it away. When one arrived and I discovered they were ultra calm I kept them!

That's exactly what I did last year not expecting to catch a swarm , never had before, now i'm up to 3 hives again but almost wish i hadn't started again, I fogotten how time consuming and heavy it all is and the worry of disease, asian hornets etc, but then I just can't resist them either

 

[Ginger19]

Ok so here is the update.. I'm still in the pooh to some extent.

I made up the Nuc with 4 frames of what I thought were young bees. (those that clung to the frame when shaken, went in). I also put in the frame of sealed brood from the main hive to give her a head start. The queen was in her cage, tab pulled. Nuc was placed about 6 feet away. Added a small feeder (jam jar up turned with holes in and sugar syrup)

That was about 5 days ago.. had a look in today and there were approx. 12 bees and the queen..Empty feeder. The bees had all cleared off.

Went into the main hive and low and behold, there are now eggs and some brood, in a small patch. I put the sealed frame of brood back in there as I was concerned they might die off in the cold Nuc. This might already have happened?

Its a bit of mess, I now have main hive which has original disabled queen or the first bought in queen, I think the latter - but she can't be seen anywhere.

And a new queen wandering around on her own in a Nuc. My priority is looking after her I guess. Any suggestions please? Grateful for advice..

 

[Erichalfbee]

I would start again.
Put queen in an introduction cage with a few bees.
Protect the fondant for three days.
Take a frame of stores against the nuc wall then another frame of brood. Put queen cage between that. Then a drawn frame. Then a dummy.
Empty the best part of a super’s worth of bees in.
It’s far far better to put a frame of stores in and do not feed
Likely the flying bees that were going back to the original hive helped themselves to syrup went home and brought their mates who emptied the feeder and took everybody else home.

 

[Erichalfbee]

PS
Unless the bees remaining on a frame after a shake are on brood they are not nurse bees which explains why they flew home.

 

[Ginger19]

Thanks Eric, all makes sense. Struggling for a frame of brood though. Apart from the one that has been shuffled, it may be full of perished brood..
If I wait a few days I could go with a frame of eggs and brood from the main hive, now that she is getting started. Would it be best when making the Nuc, to then move it to prevent the flyers returning back to the main hive again?

 

[Erichalfbee]

It doesn’t matter where you put the nuc as long as you have nurse bees in it. Some do go home but that doesn’t matter.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

loosely stuff a wad of fresh grass in the entrance as well, by the time they push out theyv will be bonded to the nuc.