raising new queen and introduction

[thenovice]

My first real beekeeping question on this forum...

Queen rearing seems to come in so many flavours, most of them for raising many...

Here is my situation:

I have 1 established colony that has proven to be too aggressive to justify her majesty to stay in power (following for half a mile and 30+ stings on 2 occasions) and 1 grown on nucleus of 7 seams national deep that can easily be inspected without smoke.
the queen in this one is laying extremely well.

I would like to raise a queen from the last to requeen.

1. is it wise to make a small nuc with 1 frame of the nuc and ad a couple with stores from the other aggressive hive to raise QCs or will this weaken the nuc too much

2. Do I add the frame with a QC to the aggressive hive for them to raise it or is it better to let it hatch and mate in a nuc before introducing it?

all suggestions welcome!

 

[madasafish]

The safest way I suggest is:
1. Dequeen the aggressive hive.
2. Add a test frame from the nuc.
3. Cull all QCs except on the test frame.
4. Remove or destroy all drone brood in the aggressive hive - you don't want their genes.

That way you have a vigorous hive raising QCs and thus hopefully produce a strong queen and you don't risk losing your good queen in the nuc.

But there are lots of other alternatives...

 

[Little John]

Pretty-much agree with that - the only thing I'd do differently is when 'de-queening' the aggressive hive, I'd put that queen with a frame of brood & bees, an empty frame and a frame of stores into a separate nuc box and fit an anti-robbing screen - and keep her as an insurance in case anything should go pear-shaped ... in which eventuality any queen is better than no queen.

You can always squish her later.

LJ

 

[Finman]

.
Is it better to buy a new mated queen. What is wrong in that?

Rearing a new queen in that situation in not good idea.
- angry drones in your hive and perhaps on area
- long time before the new queen lays. It is end of August before the new queen lays
- problems with recent angry hive and rearing emergency queen in that

 

[dn170221]

Another option (if you have the funds) would be to buy in a queen.
If she is successfully introduced you then have:
A laying queen.
I queen that has a known pedigree and hopefully if bought from the right place also has mated with drones of a known pedigree!!
Just an option.

 

[thenovice]

.
Is it better to buy a new mated queen. What is wrong in that?

Rearing a new queen in that situation in not good idea.
- angry drones in your hive and perhaps on area
- long time before the new queen lays. It is end of August before the new queen lays
- problems with recent angry hive and rearing emergency queen in that

thanks for the replies. very usefull.
I agree if you can of course trust the queen you buy. on the ohter hand, If I rear and mate in a nuc or keep old queen separately, I do not have any "queenless" period. we have at least 10 hives in the very near vicinity that are to my knowledge acceptable bees. I have also been culling drone brood lately for varroa and gene pool purposes...

 

[dn170221]

Apologies,if I had refreshed before posting I would have seen finmans post!!

 

[Finman]

.
To rear emergency queen in a nuc is not wise at all.
And a nuc in same yard means that adult bees return to the original hive. What bees you have then in a nuc.
The queen will be worst quality what you can get.

 

[thenovice]

seems a valid point!

 

[thenovice]

The safest way I suggest is:
1. Dequeen the aggressive hive.
2. Add a test frame from the nuc.
3. Cull all QCs except on the test frame.
4. Remove or destroy all drone brood in the aggressive hive - you don't want their genes.

That way you have a vigorous hive raising QCs and thus hopefully produce a strong queen and you don't risk losing your good queen in the nuc.

But there are lots of other alternatives...

there always is... given my luck I already see many QC on all the frames except the test frame . well, guess the next test frame they will have less choice where to put them...

 

[aidskywalker]

You could kill the "angry" queen, introduce the good queen from your nuc into angry hive then let the bees in the nuc raise another queen. No queen-less period and you're still raising from your own stock. The only disadvantage is if the newly emerged queen from the nuc mates with existing drones from angry colony but you have no control over that anyway.

 

[thenovice]

You could kill the "angry" queen, introduce the good queen from your nuc into angry hive then let the bees in the nuc raise another queen. No queen-less period and you're still raising from your own stock. The only disadvantage is if the newly emerged queen from the nuc mates with existing drones from angry colony but you have no control over that anyway.

well there is something I did not consider before! I will give it a moment to sink in...

 

[Finman]

.
Second disadvantage is that you loose your nuc. It is much more valuable than one queen. In August nuc without laying... And with bad luck the angry hive kills you good queen which makes now its job.

It takes 30 days before the new queen lays. Instead of queen rearing nuc grows to a good colony. So you have September and summer is almost at the end.

how many frames the nuc has brood now?

Think, that you have quite little experience and what ever you do, bad luck is quite easy to take place.
You have got here quite dangerous advices. They sounds simple but they are not.
In September you have not much time to correct faults.

 

[Finman]

well there is something I did not consider before! I will give it a moment to sink in...

Forget that advice.

.

 

[beeno]

there always is... given my luck I already see many QC on all the frames except the test frame . well, guess the next test frame they will have less choice where to put them...

Yep, you are right there. They will always prefer to make emergency QC from their own stock unless 'hopelessly queenless'.

 

[Bosleeu]

I would buy a queen.

 

[REDWOOD]

And me especially this time of year

 

[thenovice]

.
Second disadvantage is that you loose your nuc. It is much more valuable than one queen. In August nuc without laying... And with bad luck the angry hive kills you good queen which makes now its job.

It takes 30 days before the new queen lays. Instead of queen rearing nuc grows to a good colony. So you have September and summer is almost at the end.

how many frames the nuc has brood now?

Think, that you have quite little experience and what ever you do, bad luck is quite easy to take place.
You have got here quite dangerous advices. They sounds simple but they are not.
In September you have not much time to correct faults.

brood has 8 frames of which 6 are so full of brood I am on alert to start feeding as soon as bad weather sets in. I closed the entrance to a minimum as I suspect the angry hive was robbing them... in any case I might go and source a mated queen from somewhere and experiment with queen rearing next season. thanks for all replies!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

.
Second disadvantage is that you loose your nuc. It is much more valuable than one queen. In August nuc without laying... And with bad luck the angry hive kills you good queen which makes now its job.

It takes 30 days before the new queen lays. Instead of queen rearing nuc grows to a good colony. So you have September and summer is almost at the end.

how many frames the nuc has brood now?

Think, that you have quite little experience and what ever you do, bad luck is quite easy to take place.
You have got here quite dangerous advices. They sounds simple but they are not.
In September you have not much time to correct faults.

Forget that advice.

.

I would buy a queen.

Dabbling with trying to rear a queen with no previous experience and especially at this time of year if fraught with danger and using the 'test frame' method could easily have you lumbered with a 'scrubby' queen. Buy in a new queen ASAP is my advice