question re super entrance

[Cuckmere couple]

unpacked my new abelo hives and not sure i quite understand the entrance directly into the super.

3 queries

1. does it not encourage robbing
2. aren't the bees oriented to the entrance rather than side off the super
3. i thought foragers handed the honey over to house bees close to entrance in order for them to start storing and processing

any guidance gratefully received

 

[Finman]

I have long experience about upper entrances.

The basic concept is that entrances in supers are not good. They keep supers too cold and bees do not want to store honey near the opening.

But I keep 3 brood boxes. I keep 2 open of them.

Foagers like to use opening, which is nearest to brood.

If you keep mesh floors, do not use upper entrances.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

yes...i intend to block them up

thanks Finman

seems an odd concept to me

 

[Beefriendly]

They should have come with 2 sets of blocks, solid polystyrene (white) to totally block them off and black plastic vented ones in case we get a tropical summer. If you haven't got any contact Abelo and get them to send you some.

Tip with crown boards is to use gimp pins (or similar) to fasten the inserts in position....that way they don't drop off every time you open up the hive and are easily removed when you need to add feeder etc

 

[Millet]

I ordered a pile of supers a couple of years ago from Abelo and Damien forgot to put the poly inserts in..i phoned him and he could not apologize enough..they came the next day special delivery..the customer service was second to none.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I don’t have supers but there is one top entrance in their broods. I glue the plug in and sand it down.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

thanks all

bought 6 and they look good....will probably glue the wedges in and keep it traditional

 

[Monbees]

They should have come with 2 sets of blocks, solid polystyrene (white) to totally block them off and black plastic vented ones in case we get a tropical summer. If you haven't got any contact Abelo and get them to send you some.

Tip with crown boards is to use gimp pins (or similar) to fasten the inserts in position....that way they don't drop off every time you open up the hive and are easily removed when you need to add feeder etc

Thank you Beefriendly for the tip about gimp pins to secure insulation to roof. I had this problem, and such a quick and easy answer to the problem.
This is one of the things l really like about this forum - you think you are looking at a particular thread, then you come across a little nugget like this. One thing leads to another!

 

[ericbeaumont]

will probably glue the wedges in and keep it traditional

Me too. A flush-cut saw is useful.

The idea of upper entrances is not new and I read (perhaps in his Modern Bee Farm) that Simmins used to shove a super forward a little to give an upper entrance during strong flows. That method is simple and free and saves house bees the journey through the colony to off-load, but it begs the question: in a natural tree-nest, would bees select or make upper entrances?

The Abelo holes and blocks are not efficient for other reasons: should you wish to fit and remove blocks later (even if they're vaselined) the bees will have propolised them such that removal involves stabbing with something sharp or banging with something blunt. Leave a vent block in, and they'll seal the grid with propolis; forget to fit either block and bees will close the entire hole with propolis (looks impressive).

The brood blocks and slots are intended (I believe) to enable the box to be split with a division board (not supplied) should one wish to make increase: front entrance closed, box entrances opened. In reality, it's an expensive way to make splits, which can be done more economically with two frames in a split BS poly nuc.

The Abelo was designed (mostly) by Lyson in Poland and they have a liking for a rash of roof and box openings. There may well be a demand for such complications in Poland where it can get seriously hot in a southern summer, but with zero demand over here, and different methods to resolve hive management, Abelo might consider deleting the cost of their blocks and our glue, and keep it simple.

 

[Beefriendly]

but it begs the question: in a natural tree-nest, would bees select or make upper entrances?

They often have upper entrances in trees, don't know about them making them...they seem to use whatever nature (or hollow trees) throw at them. One feral colony I knew (may not be there any more) was in a curved hollow and you could see the comb from above.
Imirie reckoned his extra entrance (The Imirie Shim) gave him about 30% more honey. I am still playing around with extra entrances...no definitive conclusions as sometimes the bees are reluctant to use them, probably because they are "trained" to head downwards to the only previous entrance. But when they have used them the results have been very good. I've seen Lyson dadant hives with several entrances and bees using them all including the roof ones.
It certainly relieves all that congestion on the front landing board and the supers seem to fill up much faster.
It's trying to persuade them to use them that seems to be the issue. Which is why I really like all the extra blocks and potential entrances on the Abelo hives as I can very quickly removed them or add them back as conditions dictate. I use a small hammer to knock them out, takes seconds.

 

[Madge]

....will probably glue the wedges in and keep it traditional

The openings can come in handy at times - for example, with the ventilation blocks when moving colonies; or as an opening if, for some reason, you have drone brood above a queen excluder.

So, don’t be so eager to glue them shut. The bees will do a good job doing that themselves, anyway, but you still have the option to remove them. Removing them might be a bit difficult at times - but not too difficult. I’ve never had to use sharp or blunt implements to do that.

 

[user 6228]

I go with the bees they prefer lower entrances if they can get them. The physics supporting the bees decision is fairly conclusive. 60 millions years of experimentation is hard to refute, 4 years of modern computational fluid dynamics says bees are not wrong which is no surprise.

 

[Beefriendly]

Evidence rather than rhetoric would help here??

 

[user 6228]

Evidence rather than rhetoric would help here??

go look at T Seeleys work... He told me personally bees go for bottom entrances, and he told the Apimondia audience as well. The CFD work is yet to be published, be patient.

 

[Millet]

openings[/URL]. Abelo might consider deleting the cost of their blocks and our glue, and keep it simple.

It is so simple to get to get your head around and i 100% can not see a problem with the boxes from Abelo..even my 2yr old niece can fit shapes into holes..
Push in tight and they will not come back out..feck messing on with glue of any kind.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Evidence rather than rhetoric would help here??

Only evidence I have (anecdotal though it is) is that bees will propolise anything they don't want: holes (with blocks or not), gaps, vents, mesh floors, and any novel idea an equipment manufacturer will offer. Nearly forgot: they really go to town on the metal slots in the Abelo Ashforth feeder cover, propolising all the horizontal and some of the vertical holes.

 

[Beefriendly]

We must keep very different bees Eric....my Abelo Ashforth feeder holes are still unpropolised after 4 seasons of use.....mind I don't leave them on over winter when I would expect they would try to block off any holes causing a through draught.

 

[Madge]

....mind I don't leave them on over winter when I would expect they would try to block off any holes causing a through draught.

So, what do you do with the holes in the brood box over winter?

 

[Erichalfbee]

So, what do you do with the holes in the brood box over winter?

Nigel means the feeders

 

[ericbeaumont]

It is so simple to get to get your head around and i 100% can not see a problem with the boxes from Abelo..even my 2yr old niece can fit shapes into holes..
Push in tight and they will not come back out..feck messing on with glue of any kind.

Point is, is the cost and supply and time spent fiddling with the vent system worth it? Bees carried out a cost/benefit analysis and told me it's not.