Demaree swarm control - two scenarios

[Cuckmere couple]

Yes I see your point.
I run 14x12 so don’t encounter that problem too much but I would risk putting them in if they are uncapped and the bees will move the honey up

yup

have done that....its a judgement call at the time tbh based on how much nectar is stored, rate of flow, room elsewhere and spare frames etc

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’ve found the only foolproof method of swarm control is to nuc the queen. It requires a nuc for every colony of course but it’s so easy to do.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

once emerged for the Q in LBB to lay in, theyre already filling with honey and i have to make room below by other means.

if they've only started filling the comb in the top box ie, not capped or anywhere near full, move them down anyway - they will quickly clear them out and move the honey to the supers above - that's why I like to leave room for stores below the top box.

 

[Beedogg]

you say frames of brood - there should only be one maximum - how many did you leave with the queen?

As I understand it (but v happy to be corrected - I'm still very much a beginner), Step One is, as soon as there are 6-7 frames of brood, to remove all but 1 of the frames of brood from the Q+ BB and put them into an upper Q- BB above the QE and super, replacing the spaces left in the lower BB using frames of preferably drawn foundation. Or, alternatively as you suggest, to simply take the Queen and one frame from the BB, put her in a new BB and put that one below a QE to become the bottom Q+ BB. Either way, one ends up with most of the brood in the upper Q- BB where they hatch, whilst the Queen remains in the lower Q+ BB with lots of space to lay.

Step 2, as I understand it is to go back every 7-10 days or so and essentially rotate the laid and empty frames between the two BBs so that laid-up frames of brood in the lower Q+ are continually moved up to the upper BB and empty frames of hatched brood are moved down to the lower Q- BB to replace them.

That, as I understand it, is the basis of the Damaree, no?

The problem I found was, as I mentioned, that as soon as the brood in the upper BB hatched the bees tended to fill the upper BB's frames with stores, making it more complicated to re-populate the lower BB with frames of drawn foundation as per Step 2. My hope this year was to try to find ways of detering that so that they put stores in a super above the upper BB.

My extractor is manual 9-frame radial extractor. It does take 3x DN frames tangentially but it's a bit of pain doing so.

 

[Beedogg]

I’ve found the only foolproof method of swarm control is to nuc the queen. It requires a nuc for every colony of course but it’s so easy to do.

Does one not end up with an ever-increasing number of colonies..?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The problem I found was, as I mentioned, that as soon as the brood in the upper BB hatched the bees tended to fill the upper BB's frames with stores

asl long as they're not capped - move them back down to the lower brood box
Putting a super above the upper brood box does not guarantee they will move the honey up there

Does one not end up with an ever-increasing number of colonies..?

at the end of the season, dispose of one queen and re-unite

 

[Erichalfbee]

The problem I found was, as I mentioned, that as soon as the brood in the upper BB hatched the bees tended to fill the upper BB's frames with stores,

You need to have a super with lots of room below them. I always make sure there are two supers between the two brood boxes and if the bees are running out of room I put one on top and a new one in between

 

[Beedogg]

You need to have a super with lots of room below them. I always make sure there are two supers between the two brood boxes and if the bees are running out of room I put one on top and a new one in between

Interesting. OK, I'll try that. Last year I had one super between the BBs and one on top.

 

[fian]

And why not take advantage of the demare to control varroa?
A. If 90% of the breeding goes to the upper nest, why not put a tray with a fine mesh (enough to cut off the passage of varroa) between the super and the upper drawer.
The tendency of the varroa would be to go towards the nest where the queen continues to lay.
B. Collect the bees and completely sealed brood frames in a nuc and treat, wait for emergency +2 days and return them to the hive.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

 

[Erichalfbee]

I don't understand either

 

[fian]

The certainties of varroa activity:
1. Ability to detect and enter the cells close to closing (pupae).
2. Preference over wet nurses for having a larger fatty body (external phase) and for having access to open breeding.
If we separate the hatchling between the two nests:
A. Bottom with queen and a comb with closed brood. It continues its laying activity, although with a certain slowdown.
B. Superior with the rest of the brood.
As the brood is born, the varroa will descend since the bees are not nurses and there is no open brood to parasitize. She will be trapped in the mesh and will slowly die of starvation.
When Demare dies, a count can be made and very reliable data is obtained, since 90% of the varroas will have been eliminated, except for the few contained in the box and phoretics in the few nurses that are left with the queen in the lower nest

I don't understand either

 

[Erichalfbee]

The certainties of varroa activity:
1. Ability to detect and enter the cells close to closing (pupae).
2. Preference over wet nurses for having a larger fatty body (external phase) and for having access to open breeding.
If we separate the hatchling between the two nests:
A. Bottom with queen and a comb with closed brood. It continues its laying activity, although with a certain slowdown.
B. Superior with the rest of the brood.
As the brood is born, the varroa will descend since the bees are not nurses and there is no open brood to parasitize. She will be trapped in the mesh and will slowly die of starvation.
When Demare dies, a count can be made and very reliable data is obtained, since 90% of the varroas will have been eliminated, except for the few contained in the box and phoretics in the few nurses that are left with the queen in the lower nest

Easier to Pagden or nuc queen (without capped brood) and vape both boxes when there is no capped brood
No need to kill anything but varroa

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The certainties of varroa activity:
1. Ability to detect and enter the cells close to closing (pupae).
2. Preference over wet nurses for having a larger fatty body (external phase) and for having access to open breeding.
If we separate the hatchling between the two nests:
A. Bottom with queen and a comb with closed brood. It continues its laying activity, although with a certain slowdown.
B. Superior with the rest of the brood.
As the brood is born, the varroa will descend since the bees are not nurses and there is no open brood to parasitize. She will be trapped in the mesh and will slowly die of starvation.
When Demare dies, a count can be made and very reliable data is obtained, since 90% of the varroas will have been eliminated, except for the few contained in the box and phoretics in the few nurses that are left with the queen in the lower nest

the whole point of Demarre is that there is free passage of bees between the two brood boxes - what you are describing is not even a Demarree procedure.
And what evidence have you that all the varroa would quickly scuttle down to the bottom box? they will just become phoretic until they get the opportunity to dive into more brood

 

[fian]

the whole point of Demarre is that there is free passage of bees between the two brood boxes - what you are describing is not even a Demarree procedure.
And what evidence have you that all the varroa would quickly scuttle down to the bottom box? they will just become phoretic until they get the opportunity to dive into more brood

For the same reason that the laying closure boxes work, where the queen is enclosed with 2 frames that absorb all the varroa. These pictures are discarded
I advise you to search for information regarding Mullerbrett (name of tray)
The main advantage is that you do not need to manipulate any medication, it is a fully physical method just like the drone pictures.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

For the same reason that the laying closure boxes work, where the queen is enclosed with 2 frames that absorb all the varroa. These pictures are discarded
I advise you to search for information regarding Mullerbrett (name of tray)
The main advantage is that you do not need to manipulate any medication, it is a fully physical method just like the drone pictures.

but has bugger all to do with Demarree - which is what we were discussing

 

[Erichalfbee]

For the same reason that the laying closure boxes work, where the queen is enclosed with 2 frames that absorb all the varroa. These pictures are discarded
I advise you to search for information regarding Mullerbrett (name of tray)
The main advantage is that you do not need to manipulate any medication, it is a fully physical method just like the drone pictures.

But it’s not a Demaree which is what the OP was asking about

 

[fian]

but has bugger all to do with Demarree - which is what we were discussing

It was written at the beginning.
And why not take advantage of the demare to eliminate varroa?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And why not take advantage of the demare to eliminate varroa?

but a Demarree wont. period, if you fiddle around with it as you suggest - it isn't a demarree - it's a plain bog standard split using a screen instead of a split board.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It was written at the beginning.

I missed that. Can you point me where?